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Switch to Forum Live View re:The Holy Spirit and Miracles Today
9 years ago  ::  Mar 31, 2009 - 1:17PM #1
Mistah
Posts: 55

How is Everybody doing?...I know its been a couple months,but i'm back just been a little busy...


I noticed everybody wanting proof that those miraculous gifts are done with...here it is,



 (1 Corinthians 13:8-10)


8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.


Basically saying...that those things were used before the word was available...so miracles were the only proof of the apostles being sent from God...now instead of seeing,God wants us to have faith in his word since it is available now...



(Romans 10:17) 


 17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Simply put,dont you think??


Now,for those who say that the perfect thing wasnt the word of god(bible)...check this verse..


(PSALM 19:7)The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.


Miracles dont produce faith these days,so it has been done away with...I hope this Helped

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9 years ago  ::  Apr 01, 2009 - 6:47PM #2
Campbellite
Posts: 2,068

You have supplied an answer to a question that I was unaware anyone was asking.

You are unique.
Just like everybody else.
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9 years ago  ::  Apr 03, 2009 - 2:30AM #3
Mistah
Posts: 55

Apr 1, 2009 -- 6:47PM, Campbellite wrote:


You have supplied an answer to a question that I was unaware anyone was asking.




 


Well,ive been away for a little while and was trying to catch up...i see that people had been on this subject in febuary and all of them seem to think that the miracles either havent ceased or that "that which is perfect" was not the word of god...my question is what else could IT be?

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9 years ago  ::  Apr 07, 2009 - 1:40PM #4
Clydson
Posts: 75

Apr 3, 2009 -- 2:30AM, Mistah wrote:



...my question is what else could IT be?




Well... it could be the church.


Jake

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9 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2009 - 3:43PM #5
Mistah
Posts: 55

i doubt its the church because with the church being the people,problems come up within it at times/unlike the bible which was inspired by the perfect word of god...ill just stick with what i read.

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9 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2009 - 12:03AM #6
Clydson
Posts: 75

 


Apr 10, 2009 -- 3:43PM, Mistah wrote:


i doubt its the church because with the church being the people,problems come up within it at times/unlike the bible which was inspired by the perfect word of god...ill just stick with what i read.




So you believe that the word of God, at the beginning, was not perfect?  Where, in scripture, can you find that implied?


1 Cor 13:10-11
10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
NKJV


Personally, I believe the word of God has always been perfect or complete.  Mature at the beginning and remaining in that stage even until now.  However, the word of God was not given to the church or body of Christ in one lump sum.  It was distributed as the body could absorb it.  It was not the word of God that began as a child, but something else.  It was the word of God that caused the body to grow, become fertile and mature.


The Lord used certain miraculous works to spoon feed the word to the body.  It is these particular works that have been done away, in the same manner as Paul, when he became a man, put away childish things.


Jake

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9 years ago  ::  Apr 21, 2009 - 1:28PM #7
Mistah
Posts: 55

I was refering to the scriptures...they knew only parts of it before they actually had it in the book form...now we have it all in one place...which makes simple  knowledge change to complete knowledge(man/mature) now,so theres no use of the other stuff(childish/immature)


P.S....(THE CHURCH WAS NEVER HERE IN PART,BUT THE WORD WAS sent piece by piece at one point in time)

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9 years ago  ::  Apr 22, 2009 - 12:48AM #8
Clydson
Posts: 75

 


 


 


Apr 21, 2009 -- 1:28PM, Mistah wrote:


I was refering to the scriptures...they knew only parts of it before they actually had it in the book form...now we have it all in one place...which makes simple  knowledge change to complete knowledge(man/mature) now,so theres no use of the other stuff(childish/immature)


P.S....(THE CHURCH WAS NEVER HERE IN PART,BUT THE WORD WAS sent piece by piece at one point in time)




I disagree.  The church was not complete until "all nations", Jews and Greeks, had been drafted into it.  This one single point did not take place before the conversion of Cornelius.  Also, there is no evidence that elders were installed in any church before Paul's conversion.  We know for a fact that there were not elders in every church before Acts chapter 14.  Paul, in his letter to Titus, indicates that the body was yet incomplete;


2 Tim 4:22
5 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you
NKJV


At the same time, we can read that Paul had in his arsenal the "whole counsel of God";


Acts 20:27
27 For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.
NKJV

The word of God was perfect, complete and mature at the very beginning.  The church began as an infant and, nourished upon the word of God, the "milk" at the beginning, and as she grew or matured, became able to eat the "strong meat" of the word.


I agree that the apostles issued the word to the church in parts or doses, but the word always existed in complete form.  The tool they used for feeding was the particular "gifts of the Spirit".  In Acts chapter 15 we can read of a special feeding for a specific group of Gentiles, indicating they were not able to ingest more than "milk";


Acts 15:23-29
To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.
24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law" — to whom we gave no such commandment —  
25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:
29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.  
NKJV


Even though this was all the word they were able to bear, it does not imply that the word of God was incomplete, even to them.  We are able to determine they were without mature understanding to defend themselves against some of the believing Jews, which, btw, were just as immature as these Gentiles.  For they were teaching the Gentiles, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses" Acts 15:5.


The church, in the beginning, was very immature, in general.  It can be discerned by their speech and their actions.


Jake

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9 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2009 - 1:35AM #9
Mistah
Posts: 55

I wasnt saying that Gods word was ever imperfect or incomplete...What im saying is that it wasnt always completely available for us all to go and study for ourselves in the fullness that we have now....With out the whole thing we wouldnt have it in its perfect state because it wouldnt anser all of our questions and tell us what were doing wrong without being finished.

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9 years ago  ::  Apr 23, 2009 - 9:39AM #10
Campbellite
Posts: 2,068

Apr 23, 2009 -- 1:35AM, Mistah wrote:


I wasnt saying that Gods word was ever imperfect or incomplete...What im saying is that it wasnt always completely available for us all to go and study for ourselves in the fullness that we have now....With out the whole thing we wouldnt have it in its perfect state because it wouldnt anser all of our questions and tell us what were doing wrong without being finished.




But the Bible still doesn't answer all our questions, does it?


Some of our brethren, for instance, don't use instrumental music in worship, because there is no NT precedent for it. Right?


Is there NT precedent for electric lights or AC? No. Do you have them? Probably.


Herein lies one of the reasons for our divide between the churches of Christ and the Disciples of Christ. Y'all have read the NT through the filter of it being prescriptive. (Correct me if I am mistaken here.) If the NT says do this, y'all do it. If the NT says don't do it, y'all don't do it. If the NT is silent on something, y'all don't do it.


We Disciples read the NT through the filter that it is descriptive. If the NT says do it, we do it. If the NT says don't do it, we don't do it. If the NT is silent, then we are free to figure it out with our God-given minds in light of what the NT does say.


OK, I know that is over-simplified. But I do think that comes close to the heart of the matter.

You are unique.
Just like everybody else.
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