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Switch to Forum Live View Why Are So Many Noncatholics Bothered By The Pope?
7 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 7:00PM #1
friendofsaints&angels
Posts: 1,327
Not to long ago I was on the discussion, dialouge, and debate board, and I noticed that alot of noncatholics have a major problem with every other thing that the pope has to say. I don't think that the pope can tell you what you can eat for breakfast, But when he speaks about our faith I believe he does this majestarely, and makes no mistakes.
Besides GOD put him there so I obey his word. Alot of other people from different faiths are misinformed about what he says in the first place, Because they get what he said from the secular media and its usually twisted to their liking by the time the general public gets it. That is one of the reasons I gave up on secular radio and only will listen to relevant radio. http//www.relevantradio.com                 They actually have constant updates from the vatican on most of their commercial breaks, and as a catholic I thank GOD for this radio station. Why would people from other faiths be offended, or even care what the pope has to say anyway?   P.S. if you get a chance check out a priest on there called father john corapi. He explains the catholic faith like nobody Iv'e ever heard. He comes on daily at 10:00 a.m. central except on saturday when he's on at noon.
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 03, 2007 - 6:11PM #2
HistoryChick
Posts: 12
I agree that Papal statements are generally distorted by the media, but I don't think that's what gets other Christians upset. They don't recognize the authority of the Pope (they would take grave exception to your statement that "GOD put him there") and are miffed when the media holds him up to the rest of the world as THE spokesman for Christianity. Imagine how you would feel if some Baptist minister were to be quoted as speaking on behalf of ALL Christians. You would think, that non-Catholics would ask, as the Protestant Queen Elizabeth 1 said to the Catholic King Phillip of Spain-- "Why do you CARE if we go to hell?" (a paraphrase, that) and ignore him. I think they are generally more angry at the coverage that the media gives, rather than at the pope himself.
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 14, 2007 - 9:26PM #3
rjak134
Posts: 320
I wonder that from time to time myself.  It is probably related to the fact that a lot of people have a thing against the Catholic Church in general, and pay a great deal of attention.  The cultural left hates the Church, b/c the Church will not bend to cultural breezes, and yet at the same time wants to capture the Church, b/c it recognizes the amount of cultural authority behind statements by the Church.  I've noticed that, even here on Beliefnet, other denominations can get away with bashing the Catholic Church on their boards to a much greater degree than you ever see any Protestant community get attacked by Catholics, or anyone else for that matter. (The Episcopal Church is probably the closest, b/c they are kinda the poster denomination for a lot of liberal issues)

On a related note, you are quite correct, Fr. Corapi is very good.  No mincing words from him, that's for sure! :)
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 15, 2007 - 12:07PM #4
friendofsaints&angels
Posts: 1,327
No mincing words indeed. His words hit me like a 2by4 between the eyes. P.S. I quit going on the catholic debate board. Way to much catholic hate on there for me. I love my faith and sometimes feel a need to defend it, But when you state a point on there most of the time you just get back hatred, and ignorrance. You can't bring people back to the catholic faith kicking and screaming, all you can do is pray for them. GOD is power absolute, and Prayer is absolute power. with Prayer you have everything, and without Prayer you have absolutely nothing.
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7 years ago  ::  Dec 28, 2007 - 1:40AM #5
noodlesntofu
Posts: 2
I became a Christian when I was 17 years old and considered myself non-denominational for 6 years (which, by the way, I now think is silly, since your beliefs most likely align with some sort of denomiation's beliefs).  Throughout college, I was immersed in Evangelical circles.  While I loved being an Evangelical during those 6 years, I started to explore Catholicism about a year ago and have been seriously considering converting in the past few months.  When I reflect back on those first 6 years of my walk, I realize that not only did I pick up on so many anti-Catholic sentiments in the non-denominational, Presbyterian, and parachurch organizations and communities I was in, but I also passed them on to others. 

For some reason, Evangelical teachers love to emphasize certain points that, to anyone uninformed about Catholic teachings, seem to challenge the validity of Catholicism.  For example, I've heard teachers strongly challenge legalism, idols, and "rituals."  Evangelicals, in my experience, strongly embrace the idea of freedom in Christ and the need to do without "religion."  To Evangelicals, Catholicism is legalistic ("It's so strict! There are so many rules!  Jesus brings freedom from the law!"), idolatrous ("They worship Mary! Mary isn't God!  That's wrong!"), and does not value the Bible.

Evangelicals are also, in my experience, very emotional and intellectual.  Not only do they love God, they also love their beliefs, ideas, and culture.  And out of their passion comes a desire for others to experience what they are experiencing, and also a desire to prove to everyone that they are right.  Hence, a lot of Evangelicals like to point out how other beliefs are wrong (and hopefully convince you to believe what they believe).

Since Protestants believe in sola scriptura, what authority does the pope have to say what he says, then?  They're just against anything that seems non-Biblical.

Anyhow, that's just how I see it...forgive me for using gross oversimplifications and stereotypes and all...
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 02, 2008 - 9:04AM #6
samsyard
Posts: 52
I hope I don't appear to be bashing other non-Catholic Christian sects, but I do believe that  much of the Protestant anti-Pope rhetoric is derived from those pastors or preachers who either consciously or unconsciously do not want to bow to an absolute moral authority, and frankly not even to the authority of God Himself. This stems from the fact that Protestant preachers are hired by their congregations.  If their moral preachings are too strict for the congregation, they get the boot. So they have to adjust in order to keep their jobs. In fact one of my non-Catholic friends even told me proudly that the elders of his church were the ones who picked their pastors. unlike us "poor" Catholics who had to settle for whatever priest was assigned to the parish.
Even in those churches that were established by a popular preacher, he must make sure that he keeps his congregation satisfied, or he might end up preaching to an empty hall with no more revenues to telecast his services.
I hope I haven't offended anyone's sensibilities, but I think we have to be frank in order to understand why there is so much hostility in the Protestant world against Cathplicism.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2008 - 10:43PM #7
interested
Posts: 5
In 'Mere Christianity', C. S. Lewis makes the point about Jesus that one cannot dismiss him simply as a great human moral teacher: he must either be as he said, the Son of God, or else a madman, or the Devil. A human being saying what Jesus said, if not the Son of God, would be truly evil, given the power he exerted over so many people. I believe that a similar position is the basis for much Protestant unease about the Pope.
If one does not accept that his position was instituted by God, and his decisions are guided by him, the prospect of a flawed human taking on such awesome responsibility is quite appalling. Protestants in many cases are worried about the spiritual welfare of the millions of Catholics who accept the Pope's teachings on these grounds. Their stance is a little like that of someone who believes that capital punishment is acceptable in principle for severe criminals whose guilt is proven, but opposes it in practice because in reality mistakes will be made and they are not worth the benefits. Many Protestants accept that the Pope is a worthy man and agree wiht most of his teachings, but oppose the doctrine of papal infallibility on the grounds that a flawed man, even with the guidance of God available to any Christian, cannot possibly 'get it right' all of the time (even considering how rarely papal infallibility is exercised) and that this makes the institution dangerous to the Christian population.
On the other hand, it is very difficult for someone brought up Protestant to make the leap of imagination necessary to accept that a priest could ever truly believe that God had made them His ultimate channel of communication with His church, and so inevitably the suspicion creeps in that the Pope knows perfectly well that his position is a lie and that his motive is that of worldly power. This is obviously a rarer position, and more common among those who have had very little contact with Catholics or education in their beliefs.
While there are some extremely bigoted Protestants out there, I do think the assumption that most Protestants dislike the Pope for emotional, personal reasons is wrong. In most cases it is because they worry about the influence of an institution they think is flawed over the Catholic population. It doesn't have much to do with any effect the Papacy has on Protestants (apart from the disproportionate media attention given to it), it's more about genuine concern for the welfare of so many Catholic Christians.
This post has been, as is all too clear from the prevalence of Catholic-bashing generally, about only a couple of Protestant positions on the Pope, but I hope it helps a bit.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2008 - 2:13PM #8
stevegraywolf
Posts: 326
Hi!
Tradition folks..I think it's about tradition.
So many denominations are modernizing to reflect upon the new "values" and "morals" of the modern world..
Now, yeah ,those two words are used very loosely nowdays.
The papacy hads had the brass nads to say 'this is what we believe, and that's the way it is".
People dont like that. People nowdays want everything to be tailored to some new, lesser valid or strict standard.
The church hasnt budged much.

Now, couple that with the fact that some protestant folks preach from the pulpit that if you die as a catholic, they dont even bury you..they just stick ya in a shoot and send you straight to hell. Sister Nielah(sp) and the gang helped create catholic hysteria way back when. Catholics were demonized as pretty much being satanic minions..nothing less, and the pope was placed in the light of being the Anti-christ's right hand man. People believed it in small numbers, then the movement grew out of the Pentecostal and other movements that indeed catholic churches killed babies, and that yes, there was a satanic conspiracy...the stereo-type spread among evangelical movements.

Protestant hate speech... coupled with the secular world's view that anyone who refuses to change their beliefs according to "new thought" is archaic and foolish...
Teaching morals in a rapidly demoralizing world..what else could one expect?
I think before it's over with, the Roman Catholic church may well become the last bastion of what christianity is supposed to be about. That will all depend upon a Pope's ability not to cave.,,people know this, and many hope he will indeed cave in one day to the wishes of secularism.
I see no predominant figure today doing much in the way of trying to keep the tenents of the original church alive as the Pope has done, and he is hated for it.
Didnt Jesus kinda predict that?
That is what I think,
Steve.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2008 - 3:29PM #9
discerner4Him
Posts: 2

friendofsaints&angels wrote:

Not to long ago I was on the discussion, dialouge, and debate board, and I noticed that alot of noncatholics have a major problem with every other thing that the pope has to say. I don't think that the pope can tell you what you can eat for breakfast, But when he speaks about our faith I believe he does this majestarely, and makes no mistakes.
Besides GOD put him there so I obey his word. Alot of other people from different faiths are misinformed about what he says in the first place, Because they get what he said from the secular media and its usually twisted to their liking by the time the general public gets it. That is one of the reasons I gave up on secular radio and only will listen to relevant radio. http//www.relevantradio.com                 They actually have constant updates from the vatican on most of their commercial breaks, and as a catholic I thank GOD for this radio station. Why would people from other faiths be offended, or even care what the pope has to say anyway?   P.S. if you get a chance check out a priest on there called father john corapi. He explains the catholic faith like nobody Iv'e ever heard. He comes on daily at 10:00 a.m. central except on saturday when he's on at noon.


I care because the Pope is to be treated and regarded AS GOD in the Catholic religion.  This is simply NOT TRUE.

Pope means father; he is even called by the divine title "Holy Father" - but the disciples of Jesus Christ know only one Father, God. "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven" (Matthew 23:9). Nor do we call anyone by the title "holy" except our God, for the Scriptures say: "Who shall not fear You, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy" (Revelations 15:4).

The Pope is also known as Supreme Pontiff, a title inherited from the old Roman pagan mystery religion. Pontiff (Latin pontifex) means a bridge; but for us Christians we have only one bridge to heaven -- one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5).

The Pope claims to be the vicar of Christ, and has worked all his life to bring peace on earth. But the One he claims to represent had another purpose. Jesus said: "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword" (Matthew 10:34). Jesus preached one God, one way of salvation - the Pope gives false hopes to those who worship other gods and seek salvation apart from Jesus Christ, to Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists. Thus he is loved by all, but Christ was hated by all, and crucified!

He claims to be the successor of St Peter, but unlike Peter, Pope John Paul II taught others to trust in Mary and to surrender the hour of death wholly to her care. The apostle Peter taught people to call on the only name given by God for our salvation, the blessed name of Jesus the Messiah. "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

The Pope claims to be the infallible teacher of all Christians, but he distorts the clear meaning of Scripture to uphold traditional Catholic dogma. For example to defend the Mass (which is said to be a re-enactment and a carrying on of the sacrifice of Christ on the cross), Pope John Paul wrote: "Through the shedding of His own blood, Jesus Christ constantly 'ENTERS into God's sanctuary thus obtaining eternal redemption' (cf. Heb 9:12)" (Crossing the Threshold of Hope).

Compare the Pope's words with what the Bible actually says: "Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He ENTERED the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption" (Hebrews 9:12).

Notice how the word 'entered' is changed to 'enters' - giving the impression that this action is continuous rather than a simple action completed in the past. Moreover, the word 'once' is omitted, and the quotation is preceded by the word 'constantly.' Also, instead of 'having obtained' he writes 'obtaining', as if redemption is in the process of being accomplished! The meaning of this scripture is reversed! If Jesus 'constantly enters' the holy place, Christ is no better than the Levitical priests and if He has not obtained redemption, his blood is as powerless as that of goats and calves. But thanks be to God, His Word teaches the very opposite: "By his own blood he entered in once (not constantly enters) into the holy place, having obtained (not obtaining) eternal redemption for us."

What do you choose to believe: God's Word or the teaching of the papacy? Would you trust your salvation wholly in the hands of Jesus Christ alone? Or would you continue to perform religious works, do penance, rely on the daily sacrifice of the Mass, call on the name of Mary in the hope that perhaps you will be saved in the end?


I choose Christ.



....help from JustforCatholics.com

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6 years ago  ::  Jan 27, 2008 - 5:47PM #10
Agnes
Posts: 379
I thought this thread was for Catholics to discuss their faith, not for debate or prostelyzing.

It has always been my understanding that the Pope is only infallible when he teaches ex cathedra about morals and or about the faith of the Church. 

I think non-Catholics often do not understand this. And unfortuantely anti-Catholic teaching is very common in many of the conservative protestant sects.  Anti-catholicism is still one of the acceptable bigotries in America today.  I find  people who are willing to educate themselves with Catholic theology often become very tolerant and willing to a have a peaceful constructive dialogue with Catholics about the Pope and everything else.
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