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6 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2008 - 8:16PM #11
imsavedru
Posts: 76
Campbellite-
I do know some in the medical profession, but not many- I stand corrected!!.  Of the five people I can think of- 2 are professing Christians- but all have some sort of belief system . I was speaking of the medical opinions I have read/heard and the medical professions diagnosis of mental illness (with no moral or spiritual code) that speaks of the chemical/biological reasons for mental illness and drugs or therapy being the treatment.  Biblically, one can only have a SOUND mind if in Christ - because we have the mind of Christ if indeed the Holy Spirit is dwelling in us as the scriptures state.  Now..... that being said.... I think you as a Chaplain have a wonderful role in being able to present that option to the hurting person (an unsuccessful attempt).  What a great hope you can offer.
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6 years ago  ::  Dec 27, 2008 - 1:55PM #12
Campbellite
Posts: 2,068
[QUOTE=imsavedru;969604] the medical professions diagnosis of mental illness (with no moral or spiritual code) ... speaks of the chemical/biological reasons for mental illness and drugs or therapy being the treatment. 

The medical model of mental illness and moral/spiritual codes are not mutually exclusive. There are, in fact, chemical and biological causes for mental illness. Depression is one such disorder.

Thus, I have no problem with doctors prescribing anti-depressants, and at the same time recommending that the patient seek spiritual guidance. I have seen that happen many times. One of the things our hospital chaplain staff do is offer pastoral counseling. We get many referrals from mental health professionals.

I think you as a Chaplain have a wonderful role in being able to present that option to the hurting person (an unsuccessful attempt).  What a great hope you can offer.[/QUOTE]
Why thank you kindly, ma'am!

You are unique.
Just like everybody else.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2009 - 12:09PM #13
Clydson
Posts: 75

imsavedru wrote:

If a christian commits suicide, can they go to heaven?

Food for thought -tell me yours!!



Jake: Greetings imsavedru.  If a Christian commits suicide, but previous to his imminent death he repents of his transgression, scripture says his sins will be forgiven that he will not perish, 2 Peter 3:9.

I believe there are other such cases in which a Christian will not be condemned to eternal damnation when suicide is carried out.  Probably the most common point of discussion that usually develops is the case of insanity.  Do sane Christians kill themselves?

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6 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2009 - 5:25PM #14
imsavedru
Posts: 76
Let's ask Campbellite.  He sees both sides of an issue.

Personally, I dont believe you can commit suicide if the Holy Spirit is indwelling in you actively.  Since our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, how would we go against the Holy Spirit who calls us to Holy living and not death?
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2009 - 9:37PM #15
Clydson
Posts: 75
Greetings imsavedru.

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit removes himself from one's heart during the process of one being tempted and in the commission of sin?  If so, why would He do this, and what is your reasoning based upon?

You might want to consider that suicide includes the action of one protecting another from certain death.  Such as brave men and women who die during the course of war.  Also by people who give their lives that others might be spared. 

Didn't Jesus lay down his life for His sheep?  Is this not a form of suicide?

Jake
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2009 - 9:37PM #16
Clydson
Posts: 75
Greetings imsavedru.

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit removes himself from one's heart during the process of one being tempted and in the commission of sin?  If so, why would He do this, and what is your reasoning based upon?

You might want to consider that suicide includes the action of one protecting another from certain death.  Such as brave men and women who die during the course of war.  Also by people who give their lives that others might be spared. 

Didn't Jesus lay down his life for His sheep?  Is this not a form of suicide?

Jake
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2009 - 4:31PM #17
imsavedru
Posts: 76
Clydson-
No, I do not believe for a second that the Holy Spirit removes himself from us.  But I do believe that we can Quench the Spirit  by not doing what we know to do that is right - or Grieive the Spirit by doing that which we know is wrong. I do believe we can walk away from it all and thereby not be the "good and faithful servants" we are called to be.

Jesus death was not suicide it was sacrifice..... the major difference being the INTENTION of the action.

Those who give their lives in a war situation are not committing suicide.  That too would be considered sacrifice.
Again.... the intention.'

And Praise God for the men and women who do that for us all !!!
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2009 - 6:44PM #18
Clydson
Posts: 75
Greetings imsavedru.

I respectfully disagree with your belief.  Both Luke and John record that Satan entered Judas.  If the Holy Spirit did not leave his heart, both Satan and God's Holy Spirit would have been roommates. 

The first thought that comes to mind is, "No one can serve two masters".

When Judas killed himself, which master was he obeying?

James wrote that when we resist the devil, he will flee.  Well, when we resist the Holy Spirit what can be expected?  See Acts 7:51.

Concerning the meanings of "suicide" just consider this webpage;  http://www.answers.com/topic/suicide

Jake
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 06, 2009 - 4:20PM #19
Campbellite
Posts: 2,068
[QUOTE=imsavedru;994326]Let's ask Campbellite.  He sees both sides of an issue. [/QUOTE]
Aw shucks. Thank you kindly ma'am.

I am of the opinion that suicide is the ultimate in despair. It may be the final act of desperation for one who in their depression cannot see any other way out of their emotional pain.

Depression is an illness. If left untreated, it will wear down it's victims to the point that they cannot see any glimmer of hope, no matter how close or obvious it may be to those around them. You cannot help them by saying, "Snap out of it." because in truth, they cannot. Anymore than a diabetic can cure himself simply by willing it to be so.

Can God cure depression? Absolutely! But that is not how things usually work. Those in the depths of depression won't recognize the hand offered to them to help them out. Unfortunately, the first symptom some people exhibit is a successful suicide attempt.

As Christians, we need to look out for and care for our family, friends and fellow believers. Know the signs of depression and potential suicide. Reach out to them, get them help. Every community has a suicide hotline. They would much rather have a false alarm than to have someone who could be helped fall through the cracks.

As a pastor/chaplain, I would never attempt to judge whether someone who commits suicide goes to hell. FWIW, I would never attempt to judge whether ANYone goes to hell. That is between them and God. Our task as Christians is to share the Good News. Our job is to be fishers of men. It is Jesus' job to clean the fish and decide which (if any, please God) get thrown back.
You are unique.
Just like everybody else.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2009 - 9:40AM #20
jesusonlygirl2
Posts: 9
Did you ever stop to think of what tremendous pain a person must feel in order to even consider committing suicide. And which of us, if hit by a car on the way home, would not die with some unforgiven sin in our lives? Haven't you ever heard of god's mercy? I believe If someone commits suicide they are not in their right mind, and what about the people with alzheimers and mental retardation, is someone  with mental illness so different that they couldn't have some mercy for being out of their mind and in tremendous pain and wanting to end it all?
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