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6 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2008 - 8:07AM #1
ambientindigochild
Posts: 23
What is the Biblical evidence that talks about purgatory?
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2008 - 8:54AM #2
malanga
Posts: 626
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2008 - 9:10AM #3
danman916
Posts: 2,599
I suppose that your post begs the question, does every doctrine need to have explicit proof in the Scriptures, and if so, what constitutes explicit proof (explicit, being the operative word)?

Before the question can be answered, the question of this presupposition is rather important, IMO.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2008 - 2:26PM #4
munshkin
Posts: 4
Purgatory is alluded to many times in the Bible.  Here are just a few:  Matthew 5:26, 18:34; Luke 12:58-59; 2 Macc 12:43-45; Luke 12:47-48 "When the Master comes (at the end of time) some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live."  This state is not heaven or hell because there are no beatings in Heaven and in Hell we no longer live with the Master.

We must pray for the holy souls in Purgatory to help them acheive their release.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2008 - 2:16AM #5
ambientindigochild
Posts: 23
[QUOTE=danman916;599911]I suppose that your post begs the question, does every doctrine need to have explicit proof in the Scriptures, and if so, what constitutes explicit proof (explicit, being the operative word)?

Before the question can be answered, the question of this presupposition is rather important, IMO.[/QUOTE]

Yes I think doctrine should have proof backed by Scripture.  If doctrine isnt passed by scripture you might as well call it Moop.  (yes I said Moop).  Why would you create a doctrine based on the Christian faith, expect people to believe it, then dont have scripture proof to back it up besides saying "God said so".
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2008 - 4:09AM #6
MichaelGeraldH
Posts: 6
Because the bible didn't fall from the sky.  The book the Bible is another tool/gift given to the church.

For many years everything was passed down orally.  The bible had a long evolution and was put together by inspiration from God and it came into being, was protected and translated by the church.  The church preceedes the bible and is not ball and chained to it...... meaning the church subsists outside of it and does not need it to exist.  This is not to take away the honor and dignity of the holy scriptures.....but if you only use the bible....you're going to fall into all kinds of problems. 

The church, inspired by God....put the bible together......therefore u have to interpret its passages in the way it's author intended you to read it.   Case in point......this is why we have so many denomenations of christians....they all interpreted passages their own way.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2008 - 6:31AM #7
ambientindigochild
Posts: 23
[QUOTE=MichaelGeraldH;601942]but if you only use the bible....you're going to fall into all kinds of problems.[/QUOTE]

and what kind of problems would i fall into reading God's Word alone?  The Bible is our "daily bread".  Sometimes The Bible is all someone has to read.  Thats the biggest problem with Christianity today is because people are so caught up into doctrine.  If you do that you get crazy off the wall religions like Mormonism.  The early Jews relied heavly on the scriptures they read.  they ran their lives completely and totally devoted to it.  and when they appointed high Priests they totally scewed the Law of Moses and went a totally different way with it.  Jesus himself shunned the Church for that.  The hierarcy was feeding people a line of crap that didnt even follow scripture.  To me (not to start a fight) this is where purgatory is coming from.  something someone thought sounded good to make God seem more wrathful to strike fear into people to try and "be good".  In reality, no one is perfect. we all sin. DAILY.  Jesus said "In my mansion there are many kingdoms.  if i hadnt said it, it would not be so."  there are many different levels of heaven.  in otherwords there are different rewards for the good works you have done and how faithful you remained to Christ while you did it.  Because what good is faith without good works?

but back to the subject... how does the "Church" know of this purgatory?  how does it apply to me, because Im protestant.  im not wanting to start a fight here Im just curious as a someone who is really into the deeper answer of religion. the deeper "Why" so to speak.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2008 - 6:36AM #8
ambientindigochild
Posts: 23
and what if metaphoricly.. earth is "like" purgatory?  there are some people that endure so much pain and suffering enough while here on earth, you are telling them that when they die they are going to be punished for their sins THEN sent to heaven?  They have suffered enough pain as it is... once again... the Catholic church wonders why so many people turn from them and hate the whole Christian religion.  They become athiest...hardened to any religion period.  Then the Church also shuns people that have questions.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2008 - 6:45AM #9
Jwbidwell
Posts: 173
Purgatory is a theological construct that helps us to make sense of a God who is both merciful and just. There are biblical allusions, but it is mostly the product of church tradition wrestling with our understanding of salvation. Here's a good article on the subject:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m … i_86140133
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2008 - 8:26AM #10
danman916
Posts: 2,599
[QUOTE=ambientindigochild;601995]and what kind of problems would i fall into reading God's Word alone? 


Because no book is self-interpretive. The Church of the first 3 centuries judged the orthodoxy of belief based on what was handed down from the Apostolic teaching. The Apostolic teaching is called the Tradition, which in Greek is called, Paradosis, which means to hand down.
The Apostolic Tradition was passed down orally from the Apostles to the Bishops who were consecrated by them and so on. This Tradition was the same everywhere and always from as far west as Gaul and Briton to as far east as India. The oral Apostolic teaching remained the same everywhere without change which attests to the Holy Spirit's protection. This is a historical fact of the matter.

The Bible is our "daily bread".  Sometimes The Bible is all someone has to read.  Thats the biggest problem with Christianity today is because people are so caught up into doctrine.


I think that the biggest problem in Christianity today is the problem of interpretation.
That explains why there are so many denominations each with their own particular interpretation of Scripture. Some believe in eternal security of one's salvation, some say you can loose it. That's a fundamental doctrine, and there is absolutely no consensus among "bible only" Christians.

The bible is not a handbook of proof-texts.

The early Jews relied heavly on the scriptures they read.  they ran their lives completely and totally devoted to it. 


And they realized that they needed a guide to interpret it. That's where the oral tradition of Moses comes in.

The problem is one of proper interpretation, not the Scriptures themselves.

and when they appointed high Priests they totally scewed the Law of Moses and went a totally different way with it.


However, what you miss in your statements was that it was their praxis that was false, not their doctrines.

  The hierarcy was feeding people a line of crap that didnt even follow scripture.


Untrue. Read Matthew 23:1-3. Jesus told them to do everything that was commanded of them because the "hierarchy" as you called it sat in the seat of Moses. They had God-given authority. It wasn't their doctrines that were false, it was their praxis that was the contradiction to those doctrines.

how does the "Church" know of this purgatory?


Becuase it is part of what was handed down orally to the Apostles. In the same way, as the explicit word Purgatory isn't found in Scripture, neither is the word Incarnation and neither is the word Trinity. However, the teaching is there in an implicit way. There doesn't need to be explicit proof texts in the bible for something because Scripture is not a set of proof-texts. It is the story of God's revelation to his people.

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