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10 years ago  ::  May 23, 2008 - 11:35PM #91
Posts: 14,295

Mareczku wrote:

The reason I wanted you to look at this site is because I find JPII's reaching out to people of other faiths to be a beautiful thing. The very thing that this group finds to be evil and a reason to hate JPII is something that I respect him for. It made me think to see what these people believe and how I feel about it. They are filled with a type of hatred and have a wish that those who are not Catholics burn for eternity in the fires of hell. Perhaps by reading this you will see another side of JPII. I truly do not think that it will strengthen your disdain for him.

Peace - Mareczku


I went to the site of that group and less than ten minutes there was more than I could take. They are totally off the wall.

For me much of ecumenism came from Vatican II and John XXIII. Angello Roncalli had lived in many places in Europe for years on end. He is and will always be the hero for my generation and with very good reason.

I will try to find an early biography of Karol Wojtyla that isn't a paean to him. Perhaps you can recommend one I might get from Amazon.

John Paul II exhorted the parts of Vatican II that appealed to him and went around the world doing so. He also tried to back-burner much about that Council that did not sit well with him. The second point is what I do not admire.

Maybe I could put it this way: I disliked JPII's style and recentralization of the Church to Rome. Heaven knows I'm not alone in this. I've pulled out AMERICAN CATHOLIC by Charles Morris and JPII does not fare well in this volume either. It's pretty middle of the road. I also glanced at Kung's
MY STRUGGLE FOR FREEDOM which is much more negative.

I talked by phone with my youngest sister who lives in upstate NY tonight.
She's a graduate of Mt. Saint Vincent's in Yonkers. She graduated from college eight years after I did, but we both were taught to think independentlly in our Catholic colleges: different colleges but the same liberal input in spades.

I enjoy your posts and thoughts but we probably will not reach consensus
on John Paul II.

Is your school year over? All schools here are on summer break but they return to school in late August. Air conditioning does prevail!!

Have a good holiday week-end.

Jane  :)

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10 years ago  ::  May 23, 2008 - 11:40PM #92
Posts: 14,295

ElCid22 wrote:

Spot on, Temple. Good analysis. I think American Catholics will always expect the Church to keep up with the times moreso than other national populations. We're fast-paced, on the cutting edge, etc., etc., and want everything in our lives to stay in stride with our culture. Religion -- even Catholicism -- is no exception. Fundamentalism might be the only exception, though, due to its appeal to ignorance.

Europe is way ahead of us!! Americans hardly set the pace in this realm.
I think we've become the most dumbed-down Western nation of all.

Of course in the RCC the best American theologians are put on notice.
In Europe they don't care what the official RCC has to say and they haven't
for a long time. Go Hans Kung, Swiss, and Charles Curran, American!!

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10 years ago  ::  May 27, 2008 - 12:34PM #93
Posts: 7,522
Jane, I think the American cultural landscape promotes vibrance in religion as it does in other things.  I read somewhere that this is why Benedict seems to love America - we get excited about religion  (how informed people are is of course a different subject. 

Perhaps it is the diversity of religious heritages we have, and the way the Constitution has served to enshrine this diversity.  After all, competition can be a great motivator in framing one's approach.  In other areas of the Christian world, I think it is lack of competition which has led to much of the indifference towards public religion.  For that matter, even in the Islamic world I suspect it is the strawman of a religious jihad with the West which has led to so much of the present religious fervor.

I suspect that a larger percentage of American Christians take their religion seriously than do   Europeans.  But Americans also take their independence seriously; which is going to be a major trend in the American religious picture going forward.  We are no longer so docile in being told what to believe or how to act.
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