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Switch to Forum Live View Is the TRINITY a man made doctrine? If so, who made it up?
6 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2009 - 1:55AM #1
familynews
Posts: 54
The false doctrine of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit has no scriptural foundation and is found nowhere in the entire Bible. Tertullian (210 AD) taught that God was a trinity of three persons and he was denounced by the true Christians of his day. Origen (230 AD) taught that God the Father and God the Son were co-eternal, and that the (Logos) Son was eternally generated. His teachings were also denounced by the true Christians of his day. The Apostate ‘Christian Church’ at the Ecumenical Council of Constantinople in 381 AD at the urging of the Roman emperor formulated the first trinitarian creed, after almost 50 years of Arian (modern JW’s and Mormons) teaching, but the current doctrine of the trinity which the vast majority of ‘christian’ churches teach only came into being at the end of the 8th century and was written by John of Damascus. This creed is known as the Athanasian Creed.

The trinitarian baptismal formula (In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost) was adopted by the council of 381 AD, and was as a direct result of the teachings of Athanasius (circa 300 – 373 AD) the earlier writings of Tertullian (150 – 225 AD) and the writings of Origen (185 – 254 AD). Tertullian was the first trinitarian theologian and was the first to write that persons were to be baptised three times; once for each person of the Godhead.

The apostate ‘christian church’ ecumenical council of 335 AD, held at Tyre, reversed the council of Nicea (325 AD) and officially proclaimed the teachings of Arius, Eusebius, and Justin Martyr to be the official and proper teachings of Christ. The Emperor Constantine was baptised on his death bed (337 AD), by the Arian Bishop Eusebius. The teachings of Arius, Eusebius, and Justin Martyr became the official teaching of the apostate ‘christian church’, including the church in Rome, until 381 AD, when the apostate ‘christian church’ officially adopted the doctrine of the trinity of God. Apostate Christianity was made the official religion of the Roman Empire in 325 AD, but it took more than 500 years to develop the concept of the trinity. From 381 AD, only Bishops and Pastors which taught the official Christianity of the Roman Empire (the Apostles Creed – written in 381 AD) were allowed to continue in their pastorates; everyone else was either: exiled, tortured, or killed, and their writings were either burned, re-interpreted, or re-written.

The false doctrine of the trinity continues to this day, but so do the false teachings of Arius and those who came before and after him.

The Biblical viewpoint is also taught today, and many people are starting to discover what true Biblical Christianity really is.

While Biblical Christianity (the Lord our God is one Lord – Mark 12:29 & 30) was officially banned in 381 AD and the writings of the Apostles were re-interpreted and those in later centuries either re-written, or burned, yet Biblical Christianity has survived, because the truth of God can never be silenced. God has promised that his true Gospel will be preached in all nations and that he would be with his true Church for all time (Matthew 28:20).

The true Church of today and the Church in the time of the Apostles always baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ only (Acts 2:38 & Acts 8:12 – 17).

God Bless!!!
bkw...
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 19, 2009 - 6:19PM #2
T100
Posts: 8
It's all about Jesus Christ.
There is no other name: only Jesus saves.
Despite what the "feel good preachers" tell you, there's only one way.
I have heard many big time preachers getting away from this truth lately.
One was Billy Graham on Larry King Alive.
Watch out for celebrities like Ophrah !!
I have also heard "christians" say it makes no difference if you call "God" Allah.
Allah is a false  "god" and leads people into destruction.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 19, 2009 - 6:34PM #3
Kevinponeill
Posts: 802
The trinity is the Church's attempt to explain how and why it is acceptable to worship Jesus, in light of the Hebrew tradition that God is One Lord. And there is no other.

Saying Jesus is the same as the Father contradicted the Church’s view that God was dispassionate, and immutable (could not change).

I attempted to recasts the doctrine into a Naturalistic frame work in a Journal on Beliefnet. I believe there is room for development of the doctrine that can make sense to modern thinkers, without all the extra metaphysical philosophy (ex eternal progressions).  I believe I maintain the ancient Church’s concerns, without this philosophical framework.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 19, 2009 - 6:42PM #4
T100
Posts: 8
The only doctrine I need is this one:


"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life.
No one comes to the Father except through me. "
John 14:6

Very simple.

The word "trinity" is not in scripture.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 13, 2009 - 6:24PM #5
kimberly d
Posts: 7
I have always heard that the trinity doctrine came about by the Catholic Church
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6 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2009 - 3:12PM #6
judges7:21
Posts: 1

The doctrine of the trinity is a false doctrine, brought about from constantine's nicerean council in 325AD, The birth of the roman catholic( the religion the anti-christ will force upon the world when he comes to power, the word catholic means universal( the universal church of the new world order),the bible tells us in the book of 1 John 3:16 GOD laid down his life(his flesh, in the person of Jesus Christ). for us.  The bible tells us in the book of Matt 1:21Thou shalt call his name Jesus, for he shall save his people from their sins.


An angel told Joseph when he was thinking about putting Mary away(not marry her) that which is concieved in her is of the Holy Ghost ( so if the angel stated the Holy Ghost concieved Jesus, then why call GOD the Father of Jesus, wouldn't that be the Holy Ghost?  The angel understood and knew that the GOD HEAD is not three separate but equal co-existing dieties, but that Jesus is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost Isaih 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD(Jehovah), and beside me there is no Saviour, Hosea 13:4 I am the LORD thy GOD there is no Saviour beside me.  Luke 2:11 Unto you this day is born a Saviour, who is Christ the Lord. (Jehovah)  The translation of the name Jesus is Jehovah, has become my Salvation. (Matt 1:21 Thou shalt call his name Jesus for he shall save his people from their sins.).  Ther is no trinity only ONE, (One Lord, One Faith, One Baptisim) 

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6 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2009 - 1:03AM #7
Theo
Posts: 4,691

Familynews: >>> The false doctrine of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit has no scriptural foundation and is found nowhere in the entire Bible.


And so I was taught - but after studying the Bible for myself, as well as the Apostolic Fathers, I came to the opposite conclusions.


>>> Tertullian (210 AD) taught that God was a trinity of three persons and he was denounced by the true Christians of his day. Origen (230 AD) taught that God the Father and God the Son were co-eternal, and that the (Logos) Son was eternally generated. His teachings were also denounced by the true Christians of his day.


How do you know who the "true Christians" of the third century were? Tertullian, toward the end of his life, became a follower of Montanus, a false prophet with a large following, characterized by prophetic utterances and overly emotive behavior - the movement was similar to Pentecostalism today, but was even more fanatical and corrupt than the Word of Faith movement and Charismatic fringe groups. His early writings were much loved by the early Catholic Church, but they could not condone his association with Montanus. However, one thing you should be aware of - Tertullian did not coin the word "Trinity." The word was already in use nearly 80 years before his time - Theophilus, the bishop of the Church of Antioch has the distinction of having made the earliest documented use of the word - "Trinity."


Origen on the other hand was an Alexandrian Christian who was deeply influenced by Gnosticism... he was a prolific writer, but is regarded as heretical by the historic Church of his day.    


>>>> The Apostate 'Christian Church' at the Ecumenical Council of Constantinople in 381 AD at the urging of the Roman emperor formulated the first trinitarian creed, after almost 50 years of Arian (modern JW's and Mormons) teaching, but the current doctrine of the trinity which the vast majority of 'christian' churches teach only came into being at the end of the 8th century and was written by John of Damascus. This creed is known as the Athanasian Creed.


"Apostate" is a word Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Baptist Fundamentalists and even Muslims like to use to disparage the Historic Christian Church... however, when pressed to explain how the Church founded by Jesus and the Apostles... became apostate - they all without fail make that determination based upon their own unique belief system. Thus the early Catholic Church was apostate because they do not believe the same things (whatever group) believes today. I noticed years ago that many Christians who belong to relatively ancient Churches still believe in God and in His Son Jesus Christ, and they love Him and try their best to live for Him... so in my book, they are not apostates just because they go to a different Church that may not agree with my Church about everything.


Actually it was the Ecumenical Council of Nicene in 325 AD that drafted the Creed of the Church. And this Creed was not produced out of thin air, but was based upon existing baptismal confessions of faith that had been handed down from Apostolic times. The Nicene Creed was the first statement to incorporate language designed to exclude Arian heretics from the Church... and thus can be described as the first Trinitarian Creed.


Another mistake most Anti-Catholics make is attributing everything they despise about the Catholic Faith to Constantine. The reality, however, is that Constantine was some-what disappointed by the decisions of the Church Bishops... Constantine went along with the Trinitarian Bishops, but eventually he sided with the Arians - in as much as he was baptized by an Arian bishop before his death. Moreover his family and descendants continued to support the Arian Church for generations until the movement eventually died out.


The Nicene Creed is the official Creed of Historic Christianity... the Athenasian Creed is also used on special occasions, but because of its length has fallen out of use among most non-Catholic Trinitarian Churches. I do not confess the Athenasian Creed because I do not agree with its opening statements. As for its being written by John of Damascus... I have never heard that before... it is my understanding that it was a group work.


>>>>The trinitarian baptismal formula (In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost) was adopted by the council of 381 AD, and was as a direct result of the teachings of Athanasius (circa 300 - 373 AD) the earlier writings of Tertullian (150 - 225 AD) and the writings of Origen (185 - 254 AD). Tertullian was the first trinitarian theologian and was the first to write that persons were to be baptised three times; once for each person of the Godhead.


Read the Didache (50 to 150 AD) It was a first century Christian manual on how to conduct the worship of God... It makes mention of water baptism in both the name of Jesus Christ, and in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit... and it also depicts the rite of tri-immersion. That's late first - early second century Christianity mind you, which predated Tertullian by nearly 100 years.


But the reason Trinitarian Baptism displaced baptism in Jesus name is because of all the heretical believers who wanted to join the historic Church - once the Empire ceased persecuting Christianity. The problem was, they had already been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. And the Bishops of the Church would not allow heretics a place in the Church unless they renounced their heretical beliefs in God and Christ. Thus they decided to re-baptize them, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as a means to help ensure they had renounced their heretical beliefs.   


>>>> The apostate 'christian church' ecumenical council of 335 AD, held at Tyre, reversed the council of Nicea (325 AD) and officially proclaimed the teachings of Arius, Eusebius, and Justin Martyr to be the official and proper teachings of Christ. The Emperor Constantine was baptised on his death bed (337 AD), by the Arian Bishop Eusebius. The teachings of Arius, Eusebius, and Justin Martyr became the official teaching of the apostate 'christian church', including the church in Rome, until 381 AD, when the apostate 'christian church' officially adopted the doctrine of the trinity of God.


Yes, the Arians had a lot of political clout and they did, with the aid of the Emperor, succeed in ousting the Trinitarian Bishops for a time. But that does not mean that the Catholic Church became Arian... it means that it went underground, and the Arian Church enjoyed the favor of the Empire for a time.


As for Constantine being baptized by Eusebius... I don't thing so. Eusebius was the bishop of Caesarea near Galilee, and though he leaned toward the Arian heresies, he came back from Nicene in 325 confessing the Creed and implementing its confession in the Churches under his charge.


As for Justin Martyr - he was martyred before Constantine came to power and he was a Trinitarian... or if you insist - pre-trinitarian. He was certainly not an Arian... he died well before Arius rebelled against his bishop in Alexandria Egypt.


>>>>Apostate Christianity was made the official religion of the Roman Empire in 325 AD, but it took more than 500 years to develop the concept of the trinity. From 381 AD, only Bishops and Pastors which taught the official Christianity of the Roman Empire (the Apostles Creed - written in 381 AD) were allowed to continue in their pastorates; everyone else was either: exiled, tortured, or killed, and their writings were either burned, re-interpreted, or re-written.


Once again - apostate is a fighting word when used by believers one toward the other. The reality is, anyone who believes in God and Christ and is trying to live for God - is NOT an apostate. They may believe differently then you - but then you are not the standard of truth. The standard we hold in common is the Holy Scripture - and non-Oneness believers believe the Bible just as strongly as you do.


Yes, it took along time for Trinitarian Scholars to work out the kinks. But eventually Trinitarian Christianity came to a consensus and a common understanding of the Creed. The only outstanding issue pertains to the Person of the Holy Spirit - does He "proceed from the Father - only" or does He proceed from the Father through the Son?


But there is nothing wrong with taking a long time to define a doctrine, believe me - there is still plenty of debate going on behind the scenes in the Oneness camp too.



>>>>While Biblical Christianity (the Lord our God is one Lord - Mark 12:29 & 30) was officially banned in 381 AD and the writings of the Apostles were re-interpreted and those in later centuries either re-written, or burned, yet Biblical Christianity has survived, because the truth of God can never be silenced. God has promised that his true Gospel will be preached in all nations and that he would be with his true Church for all time (Matthew 28:20).


And this is where every cult and false religion that split off of historic Christianity starts. Montanist, Arians, Islam, the Cathars, early Protestants, Baptists, Mormons, Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses... they all begin right here... the Church established by Christ and the Apostles became corrupted and apostate - and therefore we have a right to start over and interpret Scripture for ourselves. But they can't all be right.


>>>>The true Church of today and the Church in the time of the Apostles always baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ only (Acts 2:38 & Acts 8:12 - 17).


Historically speaking - that is not true... read the Didache, read the early Church fathers. Like it or not Matthew 28:19 is in the Bible and is not the private domain of Oneness exposition. And while there is nothing wrong with baptism in Jesus name, historic Christianity baptizes in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - because of all the heretics who denied the Trinitarian Faith. Thus baptism into the Trinity became the norm and we readily admit that baptism in Jesus name was the norm in the first century.


~ Theophilus

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5 years ago  ::  May 18, 2009 - 3:43AM #8
Eponishta
Posts: 28

I do not believe that the Trinity was a part of Christianity in the beginning. The teaching is based on Greek philosophy and is more tri theistic in its present form than any of the Early Chiristians would have ever thought about.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2009 - 3:54PM #9
Theo
Posts: 4,691

The doctrine of the Trinity, as expressed in the Creeds of the Church, was unknown in Apostolic times. It developed over the first 4 centuries as a result of theological disputes over the nature of God and Christ. The early confessions of faith, represented by the Apostle's Creed, were augmented by language designed to exclude heretics like Arius and Sybellius and those who followed their teachings. Thus the doctrine of the Trinity preserves Apostolic Teaching by means of excluding heretical teachings that denied the Deity or Humanity of Jesus Christ.


There is not one passage of Scripture that I find contrary to the doctrine of the Trinity, taken in context of both SCripture and what Trinitarians actually believe.


~ Theophilus


 

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 22, 2009 - 2:19PM #10
Mikelo
Posts: 7

Jan 19, 2009 -- 6:19PM, T100 wrote:

It's all about Jesus Christ. There is no other name: only Jesus saves. Despite what the "feel good preachers" tell you, there's only one way. I have heard many big time preachers getting away from this truth lately. One was Billy Graham on Larry King Alive. Watch out for celebrities like Ophrah !! I have also heard "christians" say it makes no difference if you call "God" Allah. Allah is a false  "god" and leads people into destruction.



This is not correct.  Allah is simply the word for God in the Arabic language.


It is true that Muslims have a close affinity to the Arabic language and believe that it is the only true language of the Koran.  Because of this, they use the Arabic word for God regardless of whichever language they are speaking.


However, Arab Christians also use the word Allah, not because they are pretending to be Muslim or because they worship a false god, but because that is the word for God in their language.

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