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Switch to Forum Live View Free Thought And Free Speech Under Assault
10 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2008 - 10:22AM #1
Dutch777
Posts: 9,144
religionnewsblog.com/20669/free-speech-2 As the article elucidates, free thought and free speech are currently under serious assault in the 1st.World.  This assault is conducted in the name of respecting religious sensitivities.  Truth must be thoughtfully considered and openly expressed, even if some are "offended" by the free expression of ideas.  Those who exercise such freedom of thought and expression are now the targets of physical battering and assassination.

Christopher Hitchens has commented several times that one can get away with all manner of skullduggery simply by shoving an ecclesial title in front of their names.  I believe this to be correct.

I consider this to be a critically serious turn of events.  Our Western Tradition of freedom of thought and expression are currently under assault by religious extremists who have nothing but contempt for the West and its traditions of liberty. This is of particlar import to Anglicans who have a tradition of open inquiry and reasoned discourse. 

What are your thoughts on this article?
The Path
To Moon
lake
Doesn't Go
There.

So Walk
Your own
DharmaPath
And Be
Mindful

Dutch
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10 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2008 - 11:14AM #2
DietoWorms
Posts: 351
I absolutely agree that this is a serious issue - perhaps one of the most serious issues facing Western Civilization (which invented free speech itself, and has flourished with it).

The article Dutch posts I think is accurate in that there is a general movement against speech found offensive by one group or another.

Here is an commentary about free speech in Canada.

If someone hates a group of people, in my opinion it is better to get these feelings out in the open.  Suppressing speech only takes feelings underground, where it can't be countered in the wider marketplace of ideas.  I get the feeling Western Civilization is losing faith in the strength of its ideals, and that the best attitudes and ideas always eventually float to the top - which we have seen over and over again in our history.

Peace,

DoW
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10 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2008 - 12:48PM #3
artemis01
Posts: 925
It's the 12th Century all over again.  Inquisition.  I just saw a news piece on a mixed-male-and-female footrace of some sort in Pakistan.

Some men were being interviewed who said. "This is against Islam.  If the government doesn't stop it, we will stop it."

Right-wing "religious" reactionaries in action....
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10 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2008 - 3:17PM #4
rbchaddy2000
Posts: 1,277
I am all for protecting free speech. Responsiblity goes with free speech. Would Christians like a bomb on top of the head of Jesus? Good taste and judgement can avoid the dangerous path of censorship. Positive dialogue between the three Abrahamic faiths could foster an appreciation of common ground and respect for sensibilities. Our own televison entertainment frequently belittles Catholicism. I have made friends with a very eclectic mix of "'friends" on beliefnet. Neo-paganism and atheism/agnosticism are often not given a fair voice in my opinion. Would a Wiccan or atheist win The Presidency? I doubt it. All of us need to pause to respect other opinions. I have problems with fundamentalism, so I have made cyberfriens of that persuasion. Richard
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10 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2008 - 3:47PM #5
artemis01
Posts: 925

rbchaddy2000 wrote:

I am all for protecting free speech. Responsiblity goes with free speech. Would Christians like a bomb on top of the head of Jesus?



No, of course not.  But they wouldn't be likely to threaten the cartoonist with death, either.  Anyway, Jesus has been depicted in all sorts of blasphemous and negative ways, including a museum exhibit of a crucifix sitting in vial of urine.   I don't believe there were any death threats issued.

Actually, the reaction to the cartoon went to prove the point of the cartoon.

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10 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2008 - 4:37PM #6
Dutch777
Posts: 9,144
[QUOTE=rbchaddy2000;294701]I am all for protecting free speech. Responsiblity goes with free speech.
As one of our previous Supreme Court Justices stated "free speech does not permit crying 'fire' in a crowded theater."   Short of such egregious endangerments, free speech prevails. Period.

Would Christians like a bomb on top of the head of Jesus?
I've seen worse, right here on B-Net, btw.  No-one rioted, burned buildings or issued murderous fatwas.

Good taste and judgement can avoid the dangerous path of censorship.
What you are implying is self-censorship which is still censorship.  Besides, one person's good tasted is another's swineshness.  Bad taste, offensive statements and cartoons --- these go with free speech, like it or not. 

Positive dialogue between the three Abrahamic faiths could foster an appreciation of common ground and respect for sensibilities.
To hell with sensibilities; this is the singular issue of free speech.  If everyones' sensibilities were the benchmark, no-one could utter a word about anything.


Our own televison entertainment frequently belittles Catholicism.
The job of "belittlement" has been well accomplished by the RCC itself.  Jay Leno, Letterman and the rest are having a good laugh at the sexual aberrations, embezzlements and coverups in the RCC.  Btw --- did the RCs issue homocidal fatwas and riot in the streets? 


I have made friends with a very eclectic mix of "'friends" on beliefnet. Neo-paganism and atheism/agnosticism are often not given a fair voice in my opinion.
Oh ?   Has some foul bounder inhibited their right to free speech --- and did the Wiccans and Athiests/Agnostics riot in the streets and issue murderous fatwas?


Would a Wiccan or atheist win The Presidency?
A Wiccan has already won the Presidency.  Geo. Bush has pulled a Harry Houdini and gotten us into the Iraq War by smoke, mirrors and black magic.


I doubt it. All of us need to pause to respect other opinions. I have problems with fundamentalism, so I have made cyberfriens of that persuasion. Richard[/QUOTE]
Absolutely not, Richard.  I don't have to respect anyone's opinion --- but I must respect their right to free thought and free speech  --- and that precludes: assault, riot, arson and murder.   After all that is the core issue being discussed.
The Path
To Moon
lake
Doesn't Go
There.

So Walk
Your own
DharmaPath
And Be
Mindful

Dutch
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10 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2008 - 9:35PM #7
rbchaddy2000
Posts: 1,277
Dutch: Your clarification sounds quite sound. Repecting the right does not have to respect the thought/opinion. Fine point made! Richard
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10 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2008 - 9:35PM #8
rbchaddy2000
Posts: 1,277
Dutch: Your clarification sounds quite sound. Repecting the right does not have to respect the thought/opinion. Fine point made! Richard
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10 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2008 - 10:22PM #9
rjak134
Posts: 320
[QUOTE=dutch777;294098]religionnewsblog.com/20669/free-speech-2 As the article elucidates, free thought and free speech are currently under serious assault in the 1st.World.  This assault is conducted in the name of respecting religious sensitivities.  Truth must be thoughtfully considered and openly expressed, even if some are "offended" by the free expression of ideas.  Those who exercise such freedom of thought and expression are now the targets of physical battering and assassination.

Christopher Hitchens has commented several times that one can get away with all manner of skullduggery simply by shoving an ecclesial title in front of their names.  I believe this to be correct.

I consider this to be a critically serious turn of events.  Our Western Tradition of freedom of thought and expression are currently under assault by religious extremists who have nothing but contempt for the West and its traditions of liberty. This is of particlar import to Anglicans who have a tradition of open inquiry and reasoned discourse. 

What are your thoughts on this article?
[/QUOTE]

Now if me & Dutch are on the same page, you know there's something pretty serious going on. :)   It is totally ridiculous that a few cartoons, or a mis-understood quote from the Pope in an academic lecture, can set off firebombings, riots, and murder plots.  As has been rightly noted above, when such offenses are shoved at Christians, we do things like writing letters of protest, grumbling on blogs, and the like.

For a really entertaining defense of free speech, check out the youtube videos of Ezra Levant, an Albertan publisher who printed the Mohammad cartoons & was dragged up before a Canadian "Human Rights" commission to defend himself.  This video is my favorite, the rest can be found in the "related videos" section:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iMNM1tef7g&NR=1 .
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10 years ago  ::  Feb 18, 2008 - 3:45AM #10
jeanette1
Posts: 738
I know Ezra, and believe me although he can be be very controversial and I generally don't agree with his opinions I do however agree with what he has said to the HRC. Don't be surprised if Syed shows up here BTW ...he's been doing that on just about every blog that has spoken negatively about him and is now wanting to go after the CRTC about Dave Rutherford who is a conservative talk show host here in Calgary. Dave interviewed one of the 3 Muslim women who have Syed  up on charges with the Human Rights Commission in Alberta. Apparently Syed has a problem with people who voice their opinions. lol.

Unfortunately this Imam is going to be speaking to our congregation next Saturday...(oh joy!) It's on building bridges and helping one another or some thing along those lines. I've got the invite in front of me and I want to go but I'm afraid I won't be able to hold my tongue and I don't want him to take our Cathedral to the HRC....so maybe I should stay away?

Rjak
Ezra also has a blog that you can read with all the responses from people who have been following his ordeal. I've already donated money to help with his legal bills. Sayed didn't have to pay a cent! That's the beauty of it all. You can lodge a complaint and it's free of charge and the person who is accused is guilty until proven innocent and has to hire lawyers.

Oh... the blog is Ezra Levant.:)
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