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6 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2008 - 10:00AM #1
Shaner
Posts: 1,596
For some reason I can't post the Url, so here it is in its entirety,

Cardinals Hoping for a 5th Marian Dogma
To Declare Mary as Mother of Humanity

ROME, FEB. 11, 2008 (Zenit.org).- Five cardinals have sent a letter inviting prelates worldwide to join them in petitioning Benedict XVI to declare a fifth Marian dogma they said would "proclaim the full Christian truth about Mary."The text, released last week, includes the petition that asks the Pope to proclaim Mary as "the Spiritual Mother of All Humanity, the co-redemptrix with Jesus the redeemer, mediatrix of all graces with Jesus the one mediator, and advocate with Jesus Christ on behalf of the human race."
The signatories of the letter are five of the six cardinal co-sponsors of the 2005 International Symposium on Marian Coredemption, held in Fatima: Cardinal Telesphore Toppo, archbishop of Ranchi, India; Cardinal Luis Aponte Martínez, retired archbishop of San Juan, Puerto Rico; Cardinal Varkey Vithayathil, major archbishop of Ernakulam-Angamaly, India; Cardinal Riccardo Vidal, archbishop of Cebu, Philippines; and Cardinal Ernesto Corripio y Ahumada, retired archbishop of Mexico City.
Cardinal Edouard Gagnon, who died last August, was the sixth cardinal co-sponsor of the 2005 conference. He was the president of the Pontifical Council of the Family from 1974 until he resigned in 1990.
The secretariat of the five cardinal co-patrons released the English translation of the letter, which includes a translation and the original Latin text of the "votum," or petition, that was formulated in 2005 and presented formally to the Pope by Cardinal Telesphore in 2006.
The petition states: "We believe the time opportune for a solemn definition of clarification regarding the constant teaching of the Church concerning the Mother of the Redeemer and her unique cooperation in the work of Redemption, as well as her subsequent roles in the distribution of grace and intercession for the human family."
Ecumenism
Pointing to ecumenical concerns, the petition continues: "It is of great importance [...] that people of other religious traditions receive the clarification on the highest level of authentic doctrinal certainty that we can provide, that the Catholic Church essentially distinguishes between the sole role of Jesus Christ, divine and human Redeemer of the world, and the unique though secondary and dependent human participation of the Mother of Christ in the great work of Redemption."
The text adds that the move would be "the ultimate expression of doctrinal clarity at the service of our Christian and non-Christian brothers and sisters who are not in communion with Rome."
In a press statement released along with the letter, the cardinal co-sponsors reiterated the same ecumenical concern and said the proclamation of a fifth Marian dogma would be a "service of clarification to other religious traditions and to proclaim the full Christian truth about Mary."
The statement added, "This initiative also intends to start an in-depth worldwide dialogue on Mary's role in salvation for our time. [...] Should this effort prove successful, a proclamation would constitute a historical event for the Church as only the fifth Marian dogma defined in its 2,000-year history."
Cardinal Aponte Martínez, one of the cardinal co-patrons said: "I believe the time is now for the papal definition of the relationship of the Mother of Jesus to the each one of us, her earthly children, in her roles as co-redemptrix, mediatrix of all graces and advocate.
"To solemnly proclaim Mary as the spiritual mother of all peoples is to fully and officially recognize her titles, and consequently to activate, to bring to new life the spiritual, intercessory functions they offer the Church for the new evangelization, and for humanity in our serious present world situation."

===========================================
I love Our Blessed Mother and have a relationship with her, but I just can't agree with some of what is posited here.

What are your thoughts?

Peace, Sandy
"Lord, to whom shall we go?  You have the Words of Eternal Life"
"Philippians 4:13. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2008 - 12:01PM #2
BKW1
Posts: 120
This has been tossed about for years (even under JPII's pontificate) and there was an article in Zenit a while back about why this isn't a good idea. 

I'm hoping this doesn't happen and, given Ben XVI's ecumenical leanings, don't think it will.
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2008 - 11:55PM #3
brjohnbc
Posts: 658
I too have a great devotion and love for Our Lady but I could see where this could cause some poblems with the Anglican/RC talks on the place of Mary in the church.

I would suspect that co-redemptrix would certainly be a dividing issue.  We have but one redeemer in the person of Jesus the Christ.

Blessings
Br. John
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2008 - 8:17AM #4
Shaner
Posts: 1,596

brjohnbc wrote:

I too have a great devotion and love for Our Lady but I could see where this could cause some poblems with the Anglican/RC talks on the place of Mary in the church.

I would suspect that co-redemptrix would certainly be a dividing issue. We have but one redeemer in the person of Jesus the Christ.

Blessings
Br. John



That's the problem I have with it, making Our Blessed Mother co-redemptrix.  Frankly, I don't believe even she would want this title and what it signifies. 

If since 2005, they've only been able to get 6 Cardinals on board, it seem's fruitless for them to introduce this to Ben. XVI.  Even JPII, who had a great devotion to Our Lady, totus tuus, never pushed for it or acted upon it during his Pontificate.  Its never become a mainstream idea, the majority of Catholics are against it and probably always will be.

We do have but one Redeemer, Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.  We also recognize the importance of Our Lady's fiat and realize the important role she played, but not as co-redemptrix,

Peace, Sandy

"Lord, to whom shall we go?  You have the Words of Eternal Life"
"Philippians 4:13. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2008 - 3:46PM #5
Apishapa
Posts: 276
Marian Dogma   

I have difficulty with this pope and changes he's been implementing.   

"To solemnly proclaim Mary as the spiritual mother of all peoples is to fully recognize her titles and consequently to activate, to bring to new life the spiritual, intercessory functions they offer the church for new evangelization, and for humanity in our serious present world situation."   

The church has used, Mary as a symbol of the church, the mother of Christians, taken from the Gospel of John. 

"When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, 'Woman, behold, your son.'  Then he said to the disciple, 'Behold, your mother.' And from that hour the disciple took her into his home."  (John 19:26,27)   

As a child I did not know God the Father, Jesus or the Holy Spirit, Mary was always the center.  Attended St. Mary's High School, and Mary was again the center. 

All my devotion was to Mary, until I received the release of the Holy Spirit, or "baptism of the Holy Spirit," then I felt Mary was saying to me, "you can let go of my skirt (as a child hangs on to mom's skirt), now and go to my son Jesus."   It was then that I began to know God the Father, Jesus the Son, and The Holy Spirit.   

I can still "take Mary into my home,"  honor her, and ask for her intercession, just as I would ask any of the saints and other Christian to intercede for me.   I do, however, have difficulty with giving her such honor, equal to Jesus.
   
I do follow her instructions,  as she said to the servants at the wedding at Cana,  when Jesus turned water into wine,  "Do whatever he tells you." (John 2:5)    I try to do all that Jesus instructs me to do.

In reference to "evangelization," it is The Holy Spirit  through the "new Pentecost" which is the power for the "new evangelization."   Just as Jesus instructed the disciples to go and proclaim the Good News,  that is what the Spirit is saying to the Church in our time. 

The fundamental goal of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit is mission, and that mission is evangelization.   

Praise God!
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2008 - 6:47PM #6
Mareczku
Posts: 2,220
I too have a problem with the title co-redemptrix.  Jesus is our redeemer.  Jesus is God together with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit; the Holy Trinity.  Mary is not God or Goddess.  She is the human mother of Christ.  She is in a way the mother of us all and the holiest of saints but she is not our redeemer or co-redemptrix.  She is not the equal of God.  That is going too far.

Peace - Mareczku
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2008 - 7:08AM #7
Mysty101
Posts: 2,009
Hi,

[COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Here is the link[/COLOR]

I, too, have a big problem with this, and am very disappointed in these Cardinals.  This is NOT what any mother would want.  How could they even hint that the most loving of mothers would want to "cash in" on her Son's glory?


This was also in the news a few years ago. I did search, and have not found any recent documents restating the Church position, which is definitely against such a statement.  I will see if I can find anything new.

SuZ
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2008 - 7:17AM #8
Mysty101
Posts: 2,009
PS  I did another search and found this site,
[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Vox Populi Mariae Mediatrici [/COLOR]

Which was linked from this [COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Catholic page[/COLOR]

which says
[QUOTE]There are five traditional Catholic beliefs about Mary:

[LIST=1]
[*]that she is the Mother of God;
[*]that she was Ever-Virgin;
[*]that she was immaculately conceived;
[*]that she was assumed into Heaven and crowned Queen of Heaven and Earth; and
[*]that she is Mediatrix of all Graces, Co-Redemptrix and Advocate for the People of God.
[/LIST]
The first four of these have been defined as dogmas of the faith (ie, they have been infallibly defined by the Pope or by an Ecumenical Council). There is considerable impetus at the moment for the Holy Father to make an ex cathedra declaration of the infallible truth of the fifth and final Marian dogma. [/QUOTE]
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2008 - 7:21AM #9
Mysty101
Posts: 2,009
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6 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2008 - 8:12AM #10
Shaner
Posts: 1,596
Thanks Suz for all the links and research you did.

As I said in my previous post, this is one Title that not even Our Blessed Mother would want!  I just can't see Benedict XVI approving of this impetus to make her co-redemptrix, regardless of any pressures put upon him,

Peace,
Sandy
"Lord, to whom shall we go?  You have the Words of Eternal Life"
"Philippians 4:13. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
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