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Switch to Forum Live View Dominicans Advocated Lay Celebration
10 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2008 - 7:55AM #1
Shaner
Posts: 1,596
OF MASS.

The Dutch Dominicans in Holland were advocating lay Celebration of the Mass, where there is no Priest available to say one. I say were, because the Cong. of the Doctrine of the Faith caught wind of it and made them retract their statements in Church Bulletins, etc.

There's a link in this article http://www.catholicculture.org/commenta … cfm?id=210 that has more information on it.

In those places where there is no Priest to Celebrate Mass for the people, do you think they should allow Deacons, or lay Catholics as the Dominicans suggested, to Celebrate?

Agree or disagree with the Dominicans?

Sandy
"Lord, to whom shall we go?  You have the Words of Eternal Life"
"Philippians 4:13. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
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10 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2008 - 11:32AM #2
rjak134
Posts: 320
[QUOTE=Shaner;251501]OF MASS.

The Dutch Dominicans in Holland were advocating lay Celebration of the Mass, where there is no Priest available to say one. I say were, because the Cong. of the Doctrine of the Faith caught wind of it and made them retract their statements in Church Bulletins, etc.

There's a link in this article http://www.catholicculture.org/commenta … cfm?id=210 that has more information on it.

In those places where there is no Priest to Celebrate Mass for the people, do you think they should allow Deacons, or lay Catholics as the Dominicans suggested, to Celebrate?

Agree or disagree with the Dominicans?

Sandy[/QUOTE]

It's not even a question of what should be allowed, it's a question of what is possible.  The Church has always understood that, in order to have a validly celebrated Eucharist, one must have a valid priest to consecrate it.  The Church simply cannot "allow" lay presidency at the Eucharist, because in such an instance there would be no Eucharist.  The Dominicans who put forth this absurd proposal were rightly corrected by the Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith, and one sincerely hopes that we shan't be hearing any more such silly proposals in the future.  In instances were there is no priest, the people should gather for prayer (as is possible - in some oppressed regions, even this may be difficult), and pray especially for more vocations to the priesthood so that the problem may be alleviated.
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10 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2008 - 3:33PM #3
cove52
Posts: 999

Shaner wrote:

OF MASS.

The Dutch Dominicans in Holland were advocating lay Celebration of the Mass, where there is no Priest available to say one. I say were, because the Cong. of the Doctrine of the Faith caught wind of it and made them retract their statements in Church Bulletins, etc.

There's a link in this article http://www.catholicculture.org/commenta … cfm?id=210 that has more information on it.

In those places where there is no Priest to Celebrate Mass for the people, do you think they should allow Deacons, or lay Catholics as the Dominicans suggested, to Celebrate?

Agree or disagree with the Dominicans?

Sandy




Sandy, the article seems to dwell more on priestly celibacy. And, I for one see a chance to end the priest shortage by allowing priests to marry and have children. Married priests would more likely follow the rules, not use contraception and thus produce many children. See where I am going with this??? The sons of priests will, in many instances I believe, take on the "profession" of their father. Just think of all the future priests this could produce. I really think the Church should take another look at this very "productive" possiblity.

On your question, I agree and I also have an idea. In this our modern age of travel, wouldn't it be possible to share the blessed Eucharist with our brethren who are in places where priests cannot be all the time? In other words, ship same day delivery. This way a priestless congregation can share in the Eucharist while other religious and lay people conduct a liturgy of the word and distribute the blessed Eucharist.

So what do you think??? Should I send my ideas to B16 himself??? ;)

"I yam what I yam and I yam what I yam that I yam / And I got a lotta muscle and I only gots one eye / And I'll never hurt nobodys and I'll never tell a lie / Top to me bottom and me bottom to me top / That's the way it is 'til the day that I drop, what am I? / I yam what I yam."
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10 years ago  ::  Feb 01, 2008 - 12:54PM #4
Shaner
Posts: 1,596

cove52 wrote:

Sandy, the article seems to dwell more on priestly celibacy. And, I for one see a chance to end the priest shortage by allowing priests to marry and have children. Married priests would more likely follow the rules, not use contraception and thus produce many children. See where I am going with this??? The sons of priests will, in many instances I believe, take on the "profession" of their father. Just think of all the future priests this could produce. I really think the Church should take another look at this very "productive" possiblity.

On your question, I agree and I also have an idea. In this our modern age of travel, wouldn't it be possible to share the blessed Eucharist with our brethren who are in places where priests cannot be all the time? In other words, ship same day delivery. This way a priestless congregation can share in the Eucharist while other religious and lay people conduct a liturgy of the word and distribute the blessed Eucharist.

So what do you think??? Should I send my ideas to B16 himself??? ;)



Yes my friend, I think you should send your ideas to B 16! :D

I don't see why your idea wouldn't work for those without a Priest......have Consecrated Hosts and/or wine shipped to the Parishes and have EMEs distribute them while the Congregation celebrate's the Liturgy amongst themselves. Some of our Parishes in the very North have to fly in a Priest once a month for Mass and the Eucharist, that would help them out quite a bit as well as those Parishes worldwide where there is no available Priest for the faithful.
I don't agree with what the Dominicans did, but I can certainly appreciate why they did that.

Married Priests would certainly swell the Church with more Priests.......and as you say, one of their sons may want to carry on their father's vocation. This would also eliminate the Priest shortage.

You know though that the Church is very slow to change, so I don't expect it to change their stand on Celibate Priests anytime soon,

Sandy

"Lord, to whom shall we go?  You have the Words of Eternal Life"
"Philippians 4:13. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
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10 years ago  ::  Feb 01, 2008 - 1:19PM #5
brjohnbc
Posts: 658
I am not an RC but IMHO I can see no reason why a lay person could not be used to celebrate the Eucharist.  Special circumstances require special solutions.  Certain lay people could be called, trained and consecrated by the presiding bishop or archbishop to carry out this particular function.

I believe the church needs to take another look at the celibacy of its priests.  They have no problem accepting priests from the Anglican Church who are married which to me, seems to be a contradiction of their own rules.

Anyway ... just my 2 pennies worth.

Blessings

Br. John, OSB
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10 years ago  ::  Feb 01, 2008 - 4:13PM #6
BKW1
Posts: 120
The Church has addressed the issue of services without a priest several times in recent years. 

Eucharistae Sacramentum (On Holy Communion and the Worship of the Eucharistic Mystery Outside of Mass) issued in 1973 by the Congregation for Divine Worship, was the first after Vatican II.  I looked for it on-line but couldn't find it anywhere.

In 1988, the Congregation for Divine Worship issued the Directory for Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest (http://www.catholicliturgy.com/texts/absence.txt).  In 1992, the bishops of the United States developed a ritual book based on this text, entitled Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest.  It was first published in 1994 and revised in 2007.  Again, I couldn't find this free on-line but here is the policy implementing the 2007 version from the Diocese of Richmond, VA  --  http://www.richmonddiocese.org/worship/ … policy.pdf.

As for married priests -- priests will never be able to marry.  This is not allowed in the Eastern Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Churches and has never been allowed in the Latin Rite.  On the other hand, we may see a time in the Western Church when married men may become priests (as is practiced in the East and through the Pastoral Privilege).  Personally, I think both should be allowed (marriage before and after ordination), but that may just be the former Protestant in me coming out.
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10 years ago  ::  Feb 01, 2008 - 5:06PM #7
brjohnbc
Posts: 658
Personally, I cannot imagine attending a mass without the celebration of the Eucharist.

Blessings
Br. John, OSB
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10 years ago  ::  Feb 01, 2008 - 5:21PM #8
BKW1
Posts: 120
[QUOTE=brjohnbc;257634]Personally, I cannot imagine attending a mass without the celebration of the Eucharist.

Blessings
Br. John, OSB[/QUOTE]

There is only one day in the Catholic liturgical calendar when there is no mass.  That is on Good Friday.  Although there is distribution of the Eucharist (from hosts concecrated on Holy Thursday), it does seem somewhat lacking.
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10 years ago  ::  Feb 01, 2008 - 6:57PM #9
brjohnbc
Posts: 658
Ours is the same way BKW .. that is not a problem for me.

BTW ... as a non-RC ... thank you to the moderators of this group for allowing me to post my thoughts.

Blessings
Br. John, OSB
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10 years ago  ::  Feb 01, 2008 - 7:30PM #10
cove52
Posts: 999
Hi Sandy--I am so glad you got the humor in my post.  It was mainly meant to be tongue-in-cheek humor with a dash of sincerity.   :)

I sometimes think my attempt at humor does not go over well on these boards.  ;)
"I yam what I yam and I yam what I yam that I yam / And I got a lotta muscle and I only gots one eye / And I'll never hurt nobodys and I'll never tell a lie / Top to me bottom and me bottom to me top / That's the way it is 'til the day that I drop, what am I? / I yam what I yam."
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