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9 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2008 - 1:38PM #1
slu_magoo
Posts: 1,008
I just wanted to say hi to the folks who used to occupy this board and who haven't posted in a long while.  I miss each of you.  I hope that you are all in good health and that if you've taken the conversation elsewhere, you'll still drop in and say hi from time to time.
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9 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2008 - 4:23PM #2
DietoWorms
Posts: 351
Hi Slu,

I have been on these Anglican boards for a long time, and thank you for your post.  I have been thinking of writing something for awhile, and debated if I should post anything at all.

For me, it is probably past time to move on.  I started here when I joined the Episcopal church, moved to another Episcopal church, then left for an AMiA church.  It has been a good time, and I have learned a lot from these boards.  I also pray for and recognize the goodness in everyone participating here, even people I have not gotten along with.  That said, this is my farewell to this forum.

- I am not aware of or care about the details, but what happened to Julie-anne did not happen randomly or in a vaccuum.  The prevailing attitude here is that if you believe that sexual relations should only be between a man and a woman in a Christian marriage (as most of the Christian world believes), you are a hate-filled fundamentalist bigot.

- I got a little tired of nearly every post I made being responded with a link to a rude and insulting picture. 

- Other posters seemed incapable of responding to what I wrote, but would answer my posts with "but you go to xyz church" or "you told falsehoods about gays awhile ago, but I won't tell you what they were."  If I say something that is actually false, I like to be corrected so I gain in understanding.  These things are all in the past, but add up over time.

- It is difficult to have a dialogue about Christianity when people reject the very basics of the faith.  If people don't accept the basics of Christianity, that is fine. It in no way makes you a bad person.  It just make discussion over Christianity or Anglicanism too difficult.

- I started to feel a bit bad about reading about the bashing of African bishops.  I know sometimes the things they say have been hurtful, but I have friends in the African church and I know what they go through and I hear about some of the context of their lives and they are my brothers and sisters in Christ.  I do not agree with everything they preach, but I recognize the immense good they do in the lives of Africans and here in the United States.  The hatred and name-calling is not a Christian response to being hurt, and leads to a greater pulling apart rather than any healing.

When I get together with Christian friends and chat about Anglicanism or Christianity, we have a context and a common-language to debate ideas.  But with atheist, unitarian, hindu, or muslim friends, I don't bother discussing Anglican or Christian issues like

- How should a Christian live? What is a Christian way to handle money?  What does xyz mean in the Bible?

all require a common understanding of the very basics of the faith to be fruitful conversations.  Even more controversial items like "what should the role of women be in the church?" are much easier to debate with people who agree on the basics of the Christian faith. 

Personally, I accept women's ordination, but would never call someone who disagrees with me (like a Roman Catholic) a misogynst based on their position.  A conversation like that usually involves discussing different parts of scripture, and what we know about the early church and church tradition.

And that goes both ways, of course.  A Spong-devotee would have a very tough time discussing with me the fine points of his 12-theses, because I have a completely different mindset.  If someone really likes, appreciates, and believes in the writings of Spong, that is their business, but we have no basis for Christian dialouge.  We are talking about two completely different and incompatible universes.

Nevertheless, I am of the belief that fundamentalism is not a set of beliefs but an attitude.  All fundamentalists have a penchant for labeling and name-calling and stereotyping: you belong to xyz church, so you are a such and such. 

- When points were made that you cannot hold traditional sexual morals and be a Christian is when I saw the fruitlessness of staying in this forum.  These forums are probably better off without me, and I am better off without them.

The internet is a difficult medium to discuss things, and a lot of tone and nuance is lost.  There are other ways and websites to have Christian and/or Anglican discussion.

There is something about these boards that seems to bring out the worst in people.  There are many things that have been said that nobody would say in a face-to-face conversation or in public.  When they are pointed to me, then I find myself wanting to write hurtful things back, and I always felt like crap every time I did it.  Nobody's perfect, and I apologize for anyone I insulted.

Too many traditional Anglicans have had a bad experience here, so have moved on to other websites/forums.  Some of them were probably too strident anyway, and did not act appropriately themselves, but others get ridiculed simply for stating some basic Christian values.  I thought I could hack it, but I am afraid that I too must move on.  It is probably better for all of us.

Blessings to you all!

DoW
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9 years ago  ::  Sep 02, 2008 - 5:08PM #3
slu_magoo
Posts: 1,008
Good post, DoW.  I've missed your wisdom and will miss your posts -- as I have already, as witnessed by the first post in this thread.

I fully understand and agree with every single point you made in your post.  I have, against my better judgment, many times jumped on board with many of the hateful and hurtful things that have been written on this board and the other one. 

As one who teeters back and forth deciding whether to stay in TEC or leave (and ultimately I know I will leave), it's disheartening for me to see these boards become a microcosm of the extremism that pervades--and perverts--both the church and Christianity in general.

Keep doing God's work, as I know you and your congregation are doing.
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9 years ago  ::  Sep 03, 2008 - 10:32AM #4
JoanTreese
Posts: 2,531
Well said, Slu and DOW.

We all need to learn how to have civil discourse without bashing each other over the head. Some points of view will never be changed. But we should be able to discuss our differences in a polite and civil manner.
Joan

He has told you, O mortal, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? [Micah 6:8]
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9 years ago  ::  Sep 04, 2008 - 5:25PM #5
RJMcElwain
Posts: 3,013

DietoWorms wrote:



...................................Blessings to you all!

DoW



Well said, DoW. You and the others who have taken a different path are missed.:)

Robert J. McElwain

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." (Supposedly)Thomas Jefferson

"He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral."
St. Thomas Aquinas

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. Plato
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9 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2008 - 2:54PM #6
calebevans218
Posts: 454
[QUOTE=slu_magoo;734877]I just wanted to say hi to the folks who used to occupy this board and who haven't posted in a long while.  I miss each of you.  I hope that you are all in good health and that if you've taken the conversation elsewhere, you'll still drop in and say hi from time to time.[/QUOTE]

My absence can largely be attributed to getting started with a new school year, and all that goes along with it. To be honest, however, I also have not been around very much because these boards have not been particularly helpful to my Christian walk. My passion in life is the Lord Jesus Christ. I honestly don't care very much about church politics. I don't want to vilify those who disagree with me. It seems that too much of that goes on here, when, ultimately, what I want to discuss is the Lord Jesus.  Jesus Christ stands at the very center of Christianity, not theological and political debates. I feel like these boards have lost sight of that fact.

There has been a serious lack of Christian charity from people on both sides of the conservative-liberal spectrum. It strikes me as ridiculous just how closely some on the liberal side resemble the fundamentalists they seemingly despise. At times, I've been at fault for this animosity too, and I ask the forgiveness of anyone I may have treated unfairly.

I've been checking in on these boards off and on in an attempt to find threads for the purpose of edifying our fellow believers. These have been very, very few and far between. I find myself wondering what non-Christians would think of our faith if they stumbled across these boards. I wonder what Jesus himself thinks.

In Christ,
Caleb
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9 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2008 - 8:20PM #7
JoanTreese
Posts: 2,531
I find myself wondering what non-Christians would think of our faith if they stumbled across these boards. I wonder what Jesus himself thinks.


I think that non-Christians and Jesus would find that we don't have all the answers.  We're imperfect and striving to find our way.  We just have to keep reading, learning, praying and talking with each other.
Joan

He has told you, O mortal, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? [Micah 6:8]
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9 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2008 - 10:31PM #8
rmatth
Posts: 1,951
Well said Joan.
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9 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2008 - 11:19PM #9
JoanTreese
Posts: 2,531
Thank you, Roseann!:)

Joan
Joan

He has told you, O mortal, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? [Micah 6:8]
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9 years ago  ::  Oct 15, 2008 - 2:27PM #10
Brobrooz1
Posts: 847
I'm back.  left the TEC about five years ago. Attended and joined Anglican (ACiA), and Lutheran (both LCMS & ELCA) over a four year period, and came back to EC about a year ago.  The issues (especially,one main issue)that led me to leave are still there, but I learned that others don't seem to deal with them well either. I'm pretty conservative in my theology, but  after the four year 'journey', I'd rather be a conservative among liberals; than a moderate (all things being relative) among conservatives.
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