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6 years ago  ::  Jan 17, 2008 - 12:50AM #51
Gaia-j
Posts: 636
[QUOTE=BackonTrack;218515]Gaia, I would have to quit my job and family to keep up with the volume of your posts!!!




GAIA:

That's because i provide quotes and references to BACK UP my points, BoT.  I highly recommend that policy, btw *smile*.



BoT:
And yet, you haven't answered if you are a member of Sunstone or a similar group or associate with them which is a relevant question on topic.
[/QUOTE]



GAIA:

I thought JCOverseas already told you (in Message 34):

a)   that my actions were "hardly the actions of someone who is trolling for recruits"

and

b)  This practice of taking a McCarthy-style approach ("...are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist party?") " --

Is inappropriate   here. 


But to prove a point -- NO, i am not, nor have i ever been. 


Now that we've shot down your theories, and proven the weakness of such tactics, i hope we will *not* find them used again.

As Joseph Smith and many other LDS leaders have taught (and i quoted previously)  -- we ALL have the right to follow our consciences, wherever they may lead -- whether that includes Sunstone or anywhere else -- and LDS should be the LAST ones to find fault with anyone who does.


~Gaia

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6 years ago  ::  Jan 17, 2008 - 2:25PM #52
bytebear
Posts: 1,451
Yes, but Smith also excommunicated a lot of apostles for teaching false doctrines.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 18, 2008 - 1:40PM #53
Gaia-j
Posts: 636
[QUOTE=bytebear;220688]Yes, but Smith also excommunicated a lot of apostles for teaching false doctrines.[/QUOTE]



GAIA:

I think if you check many of those incidents, it becomes clear that it was NOT so much "for teaching false doctrines" as it was for DOING things relative to those doctrines -- for example, practicing "spiritual Wifery".
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 18, 2008 - 5:17PM #54
moksha8088
Posts: 4,815
Gaia, what is the difference between Spiritual Wifery and Polygamy?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 18, 2008 - 6:06PM #55
Gaia-j
Posts: 636
[QUOTE=moksha8088;223645]Gaia, what is the difference between Spiritual Wifery and Polygamy?

[/QUOTE]



GAIA:

Mostly, the former was the UNapproved version, the latter was the "approved"  version -- *g*
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 18, 2008 - 6:37PM #56
bytebear
Posts: 1,451

Gaia-j wrote:

GAIA:

Mostly, the former was the UNapproved version, the latter was the "approved" version -- *g*



That is putting it simply, but truth be told, plural marriage was a calling, just like Sunday School teacher.  You didn't just decide to go out and get another wife.  And yes, some early apostles did decide that the "principle" was a good excuse to have extra marrital affairs.  They were soon excommunicated.  But having read how both Smith and Young took this responsibility, I believe it was so much more than that.  I truly believe it was a calling from God, and I also believe Emma knew about the calling from the start, but she was so mortified at the thought (even to her dying day) that she never publically acknowledged it.   Finally, I don't believe Fanny Alger had anything to do with any of it, and the rumors of her "affair" with Joseph were just that.  Rumors.  And recent DNA backs up that claim.

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6 years ago  ::  Jan 18, 2008 - 6:56PM #57
ProfitOfGod
Posts: 1,020
[QUOTE=bytebear;223838]That is putting it simply, but truth be told, plural marriage was a calling... I truly believe it was a calling from God...[/QUOTE]

I can only shake my head. 

But just so I'm certain that I've read you correctly, are you saying that - to them - it was a calling back then?  Or are you saying that you (today) believe that it was a calling for them from the same God (the one in the Bible)?
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2008 - 2:09PM #58
Gaia-j
Posts: 636
[QUOTE=bytebear;223838]
That is putting it simply, but truth be told, plural marriage was a calling, just like Sunday School teacher.  You didn't just decide to go out and get another wife.  And yes, some early apostles did decide that the "principle" was a good excuse to have extra marrital affairs.  They were soon excommunicated.  But having read how both Smith and Young took this responsibility, I believe it was so much more than that.  I truly believe it was a calling from God, and I also believe Emma knew about the calling from the start, but she was so mortified at the thought (even to her dying day) that she never publically acknowledged it.   Finally, I don't believe Fanny Alger had anything to do with any of it, and the rumors of her "affair" with Joseph were just that.  Rumors.  And recent DNA backs up that claim.
[/QUOTE]


GAIA:

I must respectfully disagree on two things:

It wasn't just "mortification" that troubled Emma -- From the historial record, it's clear that she was downright BETRAYED several times, by her own husband and by women she had befriended or young girls she had taken under her "wing".

Emma knew about the Principle itself,  and vascillated wildly;  one minute agreeing and even approving of some plural wives, the next minute, withdrawing her approval.

Joseph frequently HID his plural activities from her -- eveything from "courting" women to marrying them --  behind her back (or under her nose),  -- even going so far as to do so with women she thought of as her friends.  Emma would befriend a woman or take a young girl under her "wing" to help her, and the next thing she knew, her husband would be making "private arrangements" for  "private visits" with that girl or woman in the homes of his friends, or in a back room somewhere --

Such things would NOT sit well with the most liberal, trusting, and understanding of women. 


FAnny Alger is widely accepted by most historians as having been Jospeh Smith's first plural wife --
see http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/02-FannyAlger.htm
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2008 - 2:09PM #59
Gaia-j
Posts: 636
[QUOTE=bytebear;223838]
That is putting it simply, but truth be told, plural marriage was a calling, just like Sunday School teacher.  You didn't just decide to go out and get another wife.  And yes, some early apostles did decide that the "principle" was a good excuse to have extra marrital affairs.  They were soon excommunicated.  But having read how both Smith and Young took this responsibility, I believe it was so much more than that.  I truly believe it was a calling from God, and I also believe Emma knew about the calling from the start, but she was so mortified at the thought (even to her dying day) that she never publically acknowledged it.   Finally, I don't believe Fanny Alger had anything to do with any of it, and the rumors of her "affair" with Joseph were just that.  Rumors.  And recent DNA backs up that claim.
[/QUOTE]


GAIA:

I must respectfully disagree on two things:

It wasn't just "mortification" that troubled Emma -- From the historial record, it's clear that she was downright BETRAYED several times, by her own husband and by women she had befriended or young girls she had taken under her "wing".

Emma knew about the Principle itself,  and vascillated wildly;  one minute agreeing and even approving of some plural wives, the next minute, withdrawing her approval.

Joseph frequently HID his plural activities from her -- eveything from "courting" women to marrying them --  behind her back (or under her nose),  -- even going so far as to do so with women she thought of as her friends.  Emma would befriend a woman or take a young girl under her "wing" to help her, and the next thing she knew, her husband would be making "private arrangements" for  "private visits" with that girl or woman in the homes of his friends, or in a back room somewhere --

Such things would NOT sit well with the most liberal, trusting, and understanding of women. 


FAnny Alger is widely accepted by most historians as having been Jospeh Smith's first plural wife --
see http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/02-FannyAlger.htm
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