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6 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2008 - 6:23PM #41
Mareczku
Posts: 2,220
That was an excellent post Angpuppy.  I agree with most of what you had to say.  You are right on the abortion issue.  The war in Iraq is problematic.  If Saddam Hussein had not been guilty of killing hundreds of thousands of people and genocide against the Kurds I would say that our actions were wrong.  But he was guilty of genocide so perhaps what we did was right.  Do we have a right to overthrow a government to stop genocide?  Hopefully things are better in Iraq are better than they would have been otherwise but who knows?

Peace - Mareczku
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2008 - 6:39PM #42
Mareczku
Posts: 2,220
I agree with much of what you have to say, Malanga.  In regards to births.  These are the figures for the US.  3,731,000 births in 1970, 3,556,000 births in 1971.  Abortion was legalized in 1973, that year there were 3,137,000 births, with 3,160,000 births in 1974 and 3,144,000 births in 1975.  From 1954 until 1964 there were over 4 million births each year, the height of the baby boom.  In some states, such as New York, abortion was legal before 1973.  I don't know when abortion was first legalized in a state.  Surely there were illegal abortIons but from looking at the birth figures 1973 was a watershed year, in the early 1970's the total number of abortions rose quickly.  It also should be noted that when the number of births was going down, the number of women of child-bearing age was rapidly rising due to baby-boomers entering their teens and twenties.  Roe vs. Wade has been responsible for the death of millions. 

Peace - Mareczku
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2008 - 9:59PM #43
malanga
Posts: 626
[QUOTE=Mareczku;744533]Roe vs. Wade has been responsible for the death of millions.  Peace - Mareczku[/QUOTE]

Nope.

People made the choice to have abortions, it was never forced on anyone.  Put the blame where it belongs my friend. To "blame" the law is quite short-sited an inaccurate.  As I stated before, illegal abortions are not included in those numbers you posted, so they cannot be used for any valid assessment.  We need to convince people to stop having abortions because they are wrong.  Changing the law is worthless, except as a placebo to make pro-lifers feel they did something without getting their hands dirty.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 05, 2008 - 10:14PM #44
Mareczku
Posts: 2,220
Hi Malanga, I don't have the number of abortions for those years. I could only find the number of births.  I know that there were illegal abortions before abortion was legalized in some states.  However, without Roe vs Wade I think the number of births would have remained high.  Looking at the figures one can see the influence of Roe vs. Wade.  There would still have been abortions without Roe vs Wade but not as many.  Abortion is big business in America today.  The abortion industry makes a lot of money and has influence.  Many politicians take money from the abortion industry.  I agree with what you say about educating people perhaps that is the most important. 

Peace - Mareczku
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 06, 2008 - 3:51PM #45
Tamayo
Posts: 236
[QUOTE=Mareczku;745002]Hi Malanga, I don't have the number of abortions for those years. I could only find the number of births.  I know that there were illegal abortions before abortion was legalized in some states.  However, without Roe vs Wade I think the number of births would have remained high.  Looking at the figures one can see the influence of Roe vs. Wade.  There would still have been abortions without Roe vs Wade but not as many.  Abortion is big business in America today.  The abortion industry makes a lot of money and has influence.  Many politicians take money from the abortion industry.  I agree with what you say about educating people perhaps that is the most important. 

Peace - Mareczku[/QUOTE]

Mark, can you point to sources to back up these claims? I have a good link that compiled a lot of the ACTUAL facts about the "abortion industry" to get past the propaganda.

http://thegoodauthority.blogspot.com/20 … ustry.html
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 06, 2008 - 5:48PM #46
Jwbidwell
Posts: 173
[QUOTE=malanga;744972]... We need to convince people to stop having abortions because they are wrong.  Changing the law is worthless, except as a placebo to make pro-lifers feel they did something without getting their hands dirty.[/QUOTE]

Amen!

If we're truly going to be "pro-life", then the only question that really matters is which candidate and/or party is most likely to reduce the number of abortions, regardless of their opinion on its legal status.  This approach takes into account the totality of their domestic policy positions, especially on education, health care, and the economy.  It may be too complex for talk radio and partisan rallies, but the standard should be results, not rhetoric.

The idea that we can legislate our way out of the abortion problem is farcical at best and dangerous at worst.  Politicians and advocacy groups that focus overwhelmingly on a legal solution should give us pause.  Is their agenda primarily about ending abortion, or is it more about enshrining their particular moral code into American civil law?  If the latter, what else is on their agenda?  My enemy's enemy is NOT necessarily my friend.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 06, 2008 - 6:30PM #47
Mareczku
Posts: 2,220
Well that was interesting propaganda by the abortion industry.  I comment on the one statement about how abortion workers are afraid of being killed by pro-life extremists.  Exactly how many were killed by pro-life extremists last year?  This is a very rare occurrence.  Almost no pro-life person supports this type of violence.  The lives ended in abortion clinics are the unwanted children. We need to fight the philosophy that unborn children are the property of their mothers, who can do with them what they wish.  I see abortion as violence against a mother and her child.  And yes, I read that article, Planned Parenthood gets a lot of government money.  It would be nice if we could live in a pro-child society but sadly we do not.  In our society it seems that to many money is more important than life itself. 

Peace - Mareczku
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 06, 2008 - 6:37PM #48
pistons58
Posts: 15
Brooke,
I was born, adopted and raised Catholic but in all my years I firmly believe that a president should stand for what we believe in.  I jumped the gun and had an abortion - not proud but at the time......came to find out I hadn't been pregnant....but based on what happened I assumed I was.  I also had a misscarriage and a healthy baby boy years later and I still say - Abortion is murder and a quick fix.  I truely believe if more people would realize there wasn't a quick fix to a one night stand - they might think twice about it.
Personally, I hate Obama and have no intentions of voting for him - not trying to spark a debate but also remember I am not a Bush fan (either time around Sr or Jr) and not big on McCain.  I will vote for whoever stands for what I believe in.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 06, 2008 - 6:38PM #49
Mareczku
Posts: 2,220
I am a man and I cannot imagine how a woman could be so filled with hate that she would want to terminate the life of her own child.  I have never in my life felt this kind of hate.  It is truly frightening to me.  To have your body violated, have your child dismembered, sucked out of your body and thrown into the garbage, to me this is beyond evil.  I can't imagine the torment that one would feel after going through such a nightmare.  I think of the women in China who are forced to have abortions, many against their will, I think of all the young girls there that lose their lives for the crime of being female.  How it must break the hearts of their mothers.  Even in this country many women are forced into abortions by abusive husbands and boyfriends.  Some are forced against their will into having abortions by uncaring parents.  So many, maybe a majority of these women are victims too.  We talk about choice but sadly many of these women didn't really have a choice. 

Peace - Mareczku
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 06, 2008 - 6:45PM #50
Mareczku
Posts: 2,220
Thank you for sharing your story Pistons.  That is sad, they gave you an abortion and you weren't even pregnant.  I voted for Bush twice in large part because he is pro-life.  Right now I am for Obama.  I am not happy with his pro-abortion record.  But I feel that because of this support for the middle class that hopefully he will institute programs that will reduce the number of abortions.  I could see the number of black people having abortions going down if he is elected but this is only my opinion.  I see the rich getting a higher and higher percentage of the national income and more and more power at the expense of the middle class.  Something needs to be done to help the middle class and not just more and more for the richest Americans.  I think most rich people are pro-choice anyway as they would like to see less of us and have more for themselves. 

Peace - Mareczku
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