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5 years ago  ::  Feb 06, 2008 - 2:39PM #51
smc93
Posts: 200
"Scripture is not the final authority for him."

Scripture is not the final authority for God the Holy Trinity!  :-)
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 07, 2008 - 10:21PM #52
kepercayaan
Posts: 55
God has given scripture as a final authority to men. You can NOT tell me that someone can say I have a revelation of the spirit, that will change the scripture. That sounds like Mormon or Moslim.

God has final authority and He has given the scripture so men would know that authority.
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2008 - 1:11AM #53
smc93
Posts: 200
[QUOTE=kepercayaan;272781]God has given scripture as a final authority to men. You can NOT tell me that someone can say I have a revelation of the spirit, that will change the scripture. That sounds like Mormon or Moslim.

God has final authority and He has given the scripture so men would know that authority.[/QUOTE]


Time and space don't allow for a full response to the above...


"God has given scripture as a final authority to men"

Keper, you may be unaware of it, but this sort of reasoning comes straight out is Islam.  To whit:  Muhammad is God's final (last) prophet and the Qur'an is the final 'word' from God (Allah).  In other words, the irony is pretty doggone thick.  WOW.  Christians learned this from Islam and adopted it, then adapted it to Holy Scripture.

Those who submit to the will of Allah as revealed in the Qur'an are, in English translation, Muslims, not moslims.

God was authoritative when the voice from heaven affirmed, "this is my Son, the beloved."  Only Jesus Christ holds the authority you seem to emphasize, not the Bible.  Jesus, it is said in the Bible, is the Alpha and Omega... the Bible isn't.  :-)

Humanity is to come to know, in Christian terms, God in Christ.  The Bible bears witness to this Christian truth.  The Bible isn't what God expects us to know; Christ Jesus is Who we are supposed to know.  Don't Presbyterians know this?
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 10, 2008 - 2:24AM #54
spudette
Posts: 959
Yes, Smc, that is correct, jesus is the One we need to know, but there's a lot of us that weren't around when He was walking this earth, so how would we know Him without the Bible? and if God chose to inspire a number of men to write the Bible, don't you think He is able to make sure we get all the information we need? He knows well that humans make mistakes, and I'm very sure He wouldn't allow human mistakes to stop us from getting to know Him. :-)
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 11, 2008 - 12:49AM #55
smc93
Posts: 200
[QUOTE=spudette;277859]Yes, Smc, that is correct, jesus is the One we need to know, but there's a lot of us that weren't around when He was walking this earth, so how would we know Him without the Bible? and if God chose to inspire a number of men to write the Bible, don't you think He is able to make sure we get all the information we need? He knows well that humans make mistakes, and I'm very sure He wouldn't allow human mistakes to stop us from getting to know Him. :-)[/QUOTE]


How would we know?  Who introduced you to Christ, spudette?
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 11, 2008 - 1:10PM #56
spudette
Posts: 959
Actually, Smc, when I was about nine years old i saw a black book in my cousin's bookshelf. I pulled it out, and saw that it was called  "The Holy bible". I also observed that it was different from all the other books that I had ever seen, in that the edge of the pages was colored. I asked my cousin what that book was, and he explained that it was the book about God and all that God had done for        people and about what God expected of people, He said it was OK for me to read it if I wanted to, and since I loved to read above any other activity, I immediately started to read it. It was wonderful, and I never stopped trying to know God better and better. It is amazing to realize what God taught me without the so-called interpretations of people who are supposed to know everything about Him. All I had was my child's trust in God, and He took care of the rest. Now, God talks to me through the Bible, sometimes He tells me things personally, and amazingly what He tells me directly is always confirmed in His printed Word. So you see, I do know. It is only when someone tries to say that what is printed there doesn't mean what it seems to mean but what some person of higher education says it means that we learn errors.
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 11, 2008 - 1:10PM #57
spudette
Posts: 959
Actually, Smc, when I was about nine years old i saw a black book in my cousin's bookshelf. I pulled it out, and saw that it was called  "The Holy bible". I also observed that it was different from all the other books that I had ever seen, in that the edge of the pages was colored. I asked my cousin what that book was, and he explained that it was the book about God and all that God had done for        people and about what God expected of people, He said it was OK for me to read it if I wanted to, and since I loved to read above any other activity, I immediately started to read it. It was wonderful, and I never stopped trying to know God better and better. It is amazing to realize what God taught me without the so-called interpretations of people who are supposed to know everything about Him. All I had was my child's trust in God, and He took care of the rest. Now, God talks to me through the Bible, sometimes He tells me things personally, and amazingly what He tells me directly is always confirmed in His printed Word. So you see, I do know. It is only when someone tries to say that what is printed there doesn't mean what it seems to mean but what some person of higher education says it means that we learn errors.
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5 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2008 - 3:26AM #58
kepercayaan
Posts: 55
[QUOTE=smc93;277789]
Humanity is to come to know, in Christian terms, God in Christ.  The Bible bears witness to this Christian truth.  The Bible isn't what God expects us to know; Christ Jesus is Who we are supposed to know.  Don't Presbyterians know this?[/QUOTE]


Jesus has all authority, and commands us to teach.
Matt 28:18-20
“Then Jesus cam to them and said, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” 
The holy scriptures are the very word of God,.
2.  II Peter 1:19-21
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpertation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Spirit.
and we know Jesus through the word of God.
Gal 1:11-12
“I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.”
We need to hear the preaching of the word.
Rom 10:14-15a
“How then can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? “
Without hearing there is no believe or faith.
Rom 10:17
“Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”
You can not go without the word of God, the scriptures, without the word of God you can not know him. The scriptures are give by God for men to know Him, through the working of the Holy Spirit. So if the scriptures are given by God it is impossible for the scriptures to contradict them selfs, for God doesn’t contradict Him self. If men thinks there is a contradiction then that is because we are sinful and don’t understand scripture. Jesus has authority as we read in Matt 28, we know of his authority through scripture, which I believe gives scripture authority. This doesn’t mean that scripture in it self has authority, which the Muslims believe, but it is through scripture that we know about Jesus authority.
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2008 - 7:44PM #59
mnwillems
Posts: 53
[QUOTE=kepercayaan;289774]Jesus has authority as we read in Matt 28, we know of his authority through scripture, which I believe gives scripture authority.[/QUOTE]

This kind of circular reasoning gets you nowhere fast.

God has revealed Himself to us through both general revelation (the complexity of creation) and special revelation (the Old and New Testaments of the Bible). Scripture does not derive its authority from man, but from God. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV) The Bible records that Jesus has "all authority" but that authority comes from God, not the Bible.
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2008 - 7:44PM #60
mnwillems
Posts: 53
[QUOTE=kepercayaan;289774]Jesus has authority as we read in Matt 28, we know of his authority through scripture, which I believe gives scripture authority.[/QUOTE]

This kind of circular reasoning gets you nowhere fast.

God has revealed Himself to us through both general revelation (the complexity of creation) and special revelation (the Old and New Testaments of the Bible). Scripture does not derive its authority from man, but from God. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV) The Bible records that Jesus has "all authority" but that authority comes from God, not the Bible.
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