I am truly interested in the response to CS that you offered. It was probably the most clear and consice explanation of CS healing I have encountered. I am in conflict with having beem raised in CS and having relied upon it for 5 decades,but also having answered "a Call" to a major protestant denomination as a Pastor.  My ministry is extremely important to me as a means of Grace and offering a portion of the CS view concerning man and his relationship with God to seekers of Truth that have been exposed to a loving but punishing God. Specifically---the "God's Will" explanation for all things that occur in life and death. I often wonder if I am just offering a diluted theosophy of CS belief or if I am opening the door to inspired and uplifted thought for those who come from a radically opposite viewpoint of Christ as rewarder and punisher. My seminary training has offered affirming knowledge of the deeper spiritual nessage that the scriptures hold, yet that same training offers comfort for those who find comfort in traditional worship. Your post stimulated the internal wrestling I experience and prompted me to express appreciation for your clarity of thougt and articulate response.

Hi Anita.

I'm sorry no one posted a response to your question yet, but I'll give it a shot.

Your dilemma is not all that unusual for someone coming to CS (seeking treatment) from another system of treatment. The main confusion for such seekers lies in the fact that CS is an entire way of thinking and living, not merely some spiritualized form of healthcare. Unlike a physical form of treament such as medicine where it doesn't matter what a patient may think, CS is an entirely mental activity where it very much matters what a patient thinks. Thought is everything in CS, so a patient who is divided or conflicted in thought (and therefore in faith) can't actually find much benefit in CS anymore than a medical patient can find benefit by half following a course of medical treatment. This is even more true for someone who decides to follow conflcting forms of medical treatment. Trying to do so would just be them working against their own best interests.

In your case, you found yourself drifting/walking away from the CS way of handling problems through mental means alone and then, when physical conditions seemed to require it, you sought medical help for your various ailments. You then continued on in this direction, seeking medical help when further problems appeared instead of turning back to the CS way of approaching problems. Now, some mental distance away from CS, you find yourself wishing you could obtain some help using CS. But, as you noted, CS practitioners won't take a case where the patient is using medicine (e.g. following a mental outlook where faith is placed in something other than God.) And, sadly, this seems to place you in a Catch-22 dilemma of "I can't leave the medicine because I seem to need it. But I wish I could use CS to help me out of this place I find myself in and I can't do that unless I leave the medicine behind!"

The answer in situations like this lies in voluntarily reversing the course you took in the first place. Mentally, you walked away from the CS way of approaching problems. To get back to where you once were, you simply need to (mentally) walk back. And the way one does this is by going back to the study of CS. If you still have your Bible and Science & Health available, you might find it very helpful to begin to seriously start studying them again. And if you have either the concordances or have access to a computer running Concord (a computer concordance to the Bible, S&H, Prose Works, The Manual, and the Hymnal), even better.

As you probably are aware, the last chapter in S&H is called Fruitage. It contains testimonies of those who were healed in CS simply by reading S&H. It's rather interesting to read because the testifiers often talk about the mental changes they went through as they began their study of CS. Often they were against it at the start, were ignorant of it, or thought it to be harmful in some way. But as they continued to study, they found that they were beginning to see God and man in an entirely different light. And as their thought was changing, the conditions in their lives changed as well, sometimes slowly, but sometimes rapidly or even instantaneously. They threw out their medicines and never looked back. But prior to their efforts to understand CS, they wouldn't have even thought of doing something so radical.

You might also being interested in reading the healing account of former police Sergeant John Ondrak in Robert Peel's book "Spiritual Healing in a Scientific Age" (pp. 64-68). He was badly injured in the line of duty with severe bone damage to his feet and legs. It's very instructive to watch his change of thought as he dealt with his crippling injury and accompanying pain, fought against using CS treatment, and then wholeheartedly embraced it. It's a remarkable testimony.

The reason such healings are even possible with CS is that CS views God's creation as entirely complete (nothing to be added to it, taken from it, or changed), entirely spiritual (no material emcumbrances, flaws, faults, or limitations), and entirely perfect (being, as it is, a direct reflection and expression of the one perfect God, Mind.) This is why mental treatment alone (rather than as an adjunct to medicine or therapy) is considered to be sufficient in CS. From the CS point of view, the only thing that needs to be changed is one's perspective, from one of mortality to one of immortality. God's creation is already perfect, spiritual, and complete. Thus we, being part of that creation, are also already perfect, spiritual, and complete. We just need to wake up from the mortal dream we seem to be in in order to experience that current, eternal perfection that God is maintaining and expressing.

If you do decide to pursue the study of CS again, you might find it helpful to talk to a pracitioner or to local experienced Scientists in nearby churches as you make your way forward. (My wife and I encourage one another as we work through problems. We have also appreciated the asked-for helpful insight of practitioners and teachers when working out problems on our own.) Practitioners historically have not charged people for simply asking questions or who are simply looking for advice on helpful things to study. (You should check with them first. Some of them charge these days just for talking.) But in general, just taking the firm consistent steps necessary to bring yourself back to where you can willingly and confidently give up your faith in medicine will be enough. You might even find that you won't even need a practitioner at all!

Now as to your questions about Jesus healing people and your earlier experience having help giving up smoking. If you look at the Bible stories where Jesus is healing people, generally they are coming to him because they have given up hope and faith in all other methods of treatment. The woman with the issue of blood had tried physicians for years without help before giving up on them and approaching Jesus for help. Jairus' daughter was on her deathbed with no prospect of help when Jesus was approached. The man at the pool of Bethesda was completely discouraged about being able to reach the water in order to receive help from the pool's disturbances so he was more than willing to respond to Jesus' offer of help. The man born blind was not being treated at all (nothing could be done for him), blind Bartimaeus reached out to Jesus and wouldn't take no for an answer (he put his faith entirely in what he thought Jesus could do), the Syrophenician woman came from a long distance just to seek Jesus' help (and as he noted "great was her faith"), the Roman centurion who asked for help for his servant very much "got" what Jesus was about (so much so that Jesus commented on his remarkable faith), etc.. In addition, the Bible states that when Jesus went back to his own neighborhood, his own local people rejected him and he only healed a few sick folk there, probably because they were the only ones who were completely interested in being helped by what Jesus offered to them.

And the reason your practitioner didn't ask you to give up smoking before they treated you for your addiction is because you weren't trusting in the cigarettes. You were more than willing to seek the truth in order to put them off. Your current position is rather different, however. You are actively clinging to your medicine because you believe you are obtaining help and safety through its use. However, CS treatment works from the position of denying any power whatsoever to matter. That means that if you were being treated by both CS and the use of medicine, you (while still feeling unsure of where you could safely take your stand) would find yourself not being able to rely on the medicine for help (CS treatment would tend to make it ineffective because it nullifies matter as a power), and you might still be fighting against the possibility of CS being "powerful enough" on it's own so you wouldn't wholly give yourself over to God's power. Such an awkward position would not be pleasant to find one's self in.

So basically, you need to ask yourself just how much you want to gain help from CS and God. If you really want it, you will pursue it wholeheartedly and then you will find yourself naturally being willing to drop your trust in medicine as you gain a greater sense of God's love through your own prayer and study.


Does that help at all?

I just noticed this Christian Science forum and took pause here on the medication discussion. Interesting.

Medication needs to be discussed and monitored, whether we are a Christian Scientist or not.

I happen to study and practice Christian Science and have experienced dramatic Mind-healing. My appreciation for Eddy's Science and Health expanded to the point that I took time to revise and update her book. The revision is titled, 21st Century Science and Health.

Science and Health (19th, 20th, or 21st century version), is a textbook that broadens the reader's views on medicine and Mind-healing. Two subjects that still need development. We read in Science and Health, "It is right to say that the educated class of scientists and medical doctors are great people. They are more scientific than are false claimants to Christian Science. There is much that yet remains to be said and done before all humankind is saved and all the mental microbes of sin and disease thought-germs are exterminated." 

Healing Science Today

I actually have been given a homeopathic medical marijuana remedy after discussing my story of abuse and disability in one of the hospitals years ago.  I was taking it until a state worker took me from my home and put me on the street.  At that point I became a true renunciant!  just kidding.  I definitely "left the home life," as Buddha would say.  I have talked to a number of Doctors and told my story many times with some success.  I was taking Tibetan medicine, of which the Doctor had informed me; "yes, you were right, the medication was bad for you."  I won my disability rights case with results of mental disorder associated and/or caused by the medication and treatment.  I contacted a lawyer about the situation and there are a number of important documents produced by my research.  I just wrote to Lama Zopa Rinpoche, who wrote to Al Gore about the global warming movie he did.  His letter inspired me to go for full medical marijuana rights at the time with my disability.  I basically made the wager that I would either win my right to alternative medicine by making efforts to prove the legitimacy of my remedy or I would argue it in court.  Either way I would make the point...and I did.  I went to a hospital prison for over a year.  When I got out a psychiatrist asked me why I went there.  I told him "to get things settled."  By the way, I did win court.  I don't have a mental illness disease.  I don't need to take medication.  Like I said, the mind is actually not affected by medication.  That is why medication works for one person and not for another. 

Watchfilm

P.S.  I met a scientologist after I was assaulted in the hospital.  He asked, "have you been to our church yet?"  I said, no.  He was screaming because they were shooting him up while I was doing prayers.  I prayed for him early in the morning and so we had a very auspicious meeting...he was right there and saw all of their needles as they were coming out of my room and asked what they had done to me.  They covertly avoided the question with "authority."  By the way.  He won in court.  His treating psychiatrist now works in my local community outpatient treatment center.  They asked me to sign papers after I told them that I never started taking medication...I told the counselor that I feared there was too much hatred, desire, and ignorance.

DHARMAKAYA EVIDENCE:

How do Christian Scientist's feel about medication? .... regarding such poisons, I find them to be the very Evil that we seek to nullify. ...

9/20/09

POST ORIGINAL BY SHIRLEYGOODNESS

Scientists

research.unc.edu/endeavors/win2007/hiv.p...

I  believe that there is a theme that runs between what Christian Science says is true and what I have been thinking about for some time.

Essentially, you can't pretend that something is good or bad.  It is what's creating it that is the real source of consideration, being good or bad.  The real truth is that it is not either good or bad.

It is neutral.  What exactly is neutral?  The object you are directly perceiving.

So ultimately what is helpful in this medication issue is not whether its good or bad, but what is the source of all of its appearance and manifestation.

Its not easy.  Its not hard.

When one speaks of appearance and manifest reality, they are actually two seperate things!  One is actual reality whereas the alternative is not truth.  This brings up a good point.  If the truth is not true then it will not bring a true result.  So from the very start make sure that you are clear as to what is reality and what is illusion.

I share some common belief with the Christian Scientist which is that we cannot just create something as good or bad from mere belief or aspiration.  Try.  It will not change.  There is a creator. 

Buddha says that the creator is not ourself.

It is not other.

So what do these medications do if they do not effect the true mind?  Chan speaks of a one mind whereas other schoos relate to the mind as true mind and deceptive mind.  Supposedly it is important to know the benefits of both explanations.

For ease sake I will just say mind in this example, which is, by nature pure and undefiled.  It is not changed by medication.  

If the mind where dirty, then it could be changed by an outside influence.  But what is common to many perceptions is that everything comes from the mind not TO it.  So what can affect the mind's original oneness?

The problem with medication is that people hold and grasp onto it as an observable phenomena.  It takes a while to explain to someone from direct experience and observation that it is not necessary. 

The only hope is that there is an impure mind.  This is science's only hope in believers.  So they create an impure mind, and offer an alternative solution as an antidote.

What exactly is this impure mind?  It's source is pure I believe.  That is why we are only talking about one mind, the original pure mind that is undefiled by the fluctuations of good and evil.

The real question is what is good?  I would say that the mind is essentially and purely good.

Does the mind continue after death?

Supposedly it is a new distinct mind stream with its own tendencies and so on, if for example, you had before seen the empty phenomena as good and bad (the impure mind) - a mind affected by medication (Death) then you will later see things.  You will see things as actually existing rather than being created.

Instead of seeing everything is empty, you may start to see that everything as actually true. 
Empty simply means that it is pure potential.  With the thought that nothing really exists, one must consider the appearance.  This is the correct view of reality.

The true mind or one mind referred to here does not reject objective existence but actually defines it to be true. 

If it did have a real independent existence it would be impossible to say that it is actually true, in the sense that it is changing.

Since it is changing, it cannot exist in and of itself.

This is what medication that comes from the mind is.  It is like I just explained, changing pure potential that cannot exist by itself.

This makes sense right?  Don't worry!

When you see that medication comes from the mind you will have no fear.

Everything comes and goes.

So what makes "me" see that everything is good or bad?  We can say that it is this potential and existence together.  The next point is not just how we see things as good and bad deceptively or as the wrong or right mind but how and why we see things as either good or bad period.

The problem with medication is that it makes us believe that we are not the creators of our minds and the reality.  You must learn to stop that.  In Buddhist practice they call it the difference betwee the karmic body and the spiritual entity...whatever it might be.

Doesn't it sound scary to a person who is attached to God?

They do not like medication.

It is likely that there is a certain amount of reason behind this.

The one individual or association is trying to tell you that they also create your reality.  It is like not having control.  Even for a normal person there is doubt.  The saving grace is that the medications come from your mind even.  If someone says that they do not, then you should investigate for yourself.

If medication and everything comes from the mind, then why look for anything outside of yourself?

Because yourself does not ultimately come from yourself.

They say you can meditate of mind on mind meditation for countless eons and it will not bring any result.  It is better for a single moment to recognize your essence.

I hope that people can find hope even when they are forced into these conditions of medication.

It is an external foe of sorts.  Because as long as you perceive that medication does not come from your own mind you will suffer from medication as well as from a so-called illness that hurts you superficially.

So what I have been trying to say here is that there is a common theme that I have come to recognize between the essential nature of truth and the doctrine of Christian Science.

Both point out that it is not possible to pretend yourself into getting better.  There is a cause.  And this cause is the creator of good or bad appearances in your life.

That is a lot!

Everything is contained in a tiny cause. 

We don't believe we have control over this cause.

We must learn to live without false causes.

There are so many problems for people on drugs.

They face the complex problem that the world manifests for them.

I can only feel like giving everything up.

Can we live without?

The basic principle of spiritual and material prosperity in the world depends on letting go.

The more we have the more suffering.

But if we see everything differently then we can be at peace with one another...not just accomodate one another's needs

WE can be one.

One by one

i think that people are afraid of one thing.  One.

They are already counting or are still stuck on zero.

I think if you want to ever recite anything then you have to start