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2 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2013 - 2:19PM #1
voice-crying
Posts: 7,222
Who can be: "full of grace?"
Keyword being: FULL

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
John 1:14 

The term: "full of grace" appears only once in the Bible; so, who is this person who is [full] of grace AND truth?
"Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."Proverbs 18:21
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2 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2013 - 3:28PM #2
voice-crying
Posts: 7,222

 


(KJV) Acts 6:8 says that: Stephen was "full of faith and power"


Faith and Grace are not the same thing!


"And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people." Acts 6:8 


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:" Ephesians 2:8 

"Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."Proverbs 18:21
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2 years ago  ::  Feb 18, 2013 - 2:23AM #3
Jenandew7
Posts: 12,942

Feb 17, 2013 -- 3:28PM, voice-crying wrote:


 


(KJV) Acts 6:8 says that: Stephen was "full of faith and power"


Faith and Grace are not the same thing!


"And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people." Acts 6:8 


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:" Ephesians 2:8 




What exactly are you attempting to get at?  Who thinks grace and faith are the same thing? 

If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. --Isaiah 58:10
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2 years ago  ::  Feb 18, 2013 - 8:00AM #4
voice-crying
Posts: 7,222

Feb 18, 2013 -- 2:23AM, Jenandew7 wrote:


Feb 17, 2013 -- 3:28PM, voice-crying wrote:


 


(KJV) Acts 6:8 says that: Stephen was "full of faith and power"


Faith and Grace are not the same thing!


"And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people." Acts 6:8 


"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:" Ephesians 2:8 




What exactly are you attempting to get at?  Who thinks grace and faith are the same thing? 




Hi Jenandew7, You asked: "Who thinks grace and faith are the same thing?" 


Some Bible versions are using grace and faith interchangeably. They are in error. Grace comes from GOD; faith grows by hearing the Word of GOD. Saying that a person other than Christ Jesus is "full of grace" is making a person (example: Stephen, or Mary the mother of Jesus) equal to Jesus (GOD the SON).  


"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14


A few examples of Acts 6:8, KJV, NKJV, YLT, WEB...uses the word: faith; but, NIV, RSV, NLT, NASB uses: grace.


In other words what I am saying is: the only human being FULL OF GRACE and TRUTH was the incarnate Christ Jesus. All other human beings were born of a man...our grace and truth comes from the WORD that became flesh.    


 




 

"Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."Proverbs 18:21
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2 years ago  ::  Feb 18, 2013 - 9:39AM #5
smcisaac
Posts: 7,916

Feb 18, 2013 -- 8:00AM, voice-crying wrote:


Hi Jenandew7, You asked: "Who thinks grace and faith are the same thing?" 


Some Bible versions are using grace and faith interchangeably.



That's hard to believe, but if so, they are of course mistaken.



I think most people understand that "faith" is one's own belief and trust, while "grace" is an undeserved favor or blessing from an external source.


I thnk that if Jesus is perceived as being "full of grace" it probably means he has a limitless capacity to extend grace to others. 


However, it's worthwhile to compare the same word in the original Greek where it describes Mary in Luke 1:28.  Some English translations describe Mary as being "full of grace" herself, while others describe her (more accurately, I think, given the context) as being "highly favored" by God. (John 1:14 also includes the Greek word for "full" explicitly, while Luke 1:28 does not.) If the usage in John 1:14 were read consistently with that in Luke 1:28, I think it would mean that Jesus was highly favored by God's grace in the same way that Mary was, rather than a source of divine grace in his own right.


Since Luke and John were two different authors writing from separate perspectives, though, they do not necessarily need to be construed for consistency.

"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way."  Gospel of Philip, Logion 72

"Christ will regenerate all things; through Him all things will be purged, and return into eternal life. And when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father, all things will be God; that is, all things will still exist, but God will exist in them, and they will be full of Him." Fabius Manus Victorinus, c. 350 AD
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2 years ago  ::  Feb 18, 2013 - 1:23PM #6
Gacogal
Posts: 1,088

"grace" not only means mercy and pardon, but it also means attractive qualities, goodwill, and favor. Therefore, Mary being full of grace would also be Mary being full of [God's] favor, and Mary being full of goodwill, would it not? And could she not have been a woman full of mercy, one who extended forgiveness to others readily?

Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it. (Proverbs 4:23)
What you say flows from what is in your heart. (Luke 6:45b)
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2 years ago  ::  Feb 18, 2013 - 1:57PM #7
Jenandew7
Posts: 12,942

Feb 18, 2013 -- 8:00AM, voice-crying wrote:



Hi Jenandew7, You asked: "Who thinks grace and faith are the same thing?" 


Some Bible versions are using grace and faith interchangeably. They are in error. Grace comes from GOD; faith grows by hearing the Word of GOD. Saying that a person other than Christ Jesus is "full of grace" is making a person (example: Stephen, or Mary the mother of Jesus) equal to Jesus (GOD the SON).  


"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14


A few examples of Acts 6:8, KJV, NKJV, YLT, WEB...uses the word: faith; but, NIV, RSV, NLT, NASB uses: grace.


In other words what I am saying is: the only human being FULL OF GRACE and TRUTH was the incarnate Christ Jesus. All other human beings were born of a man...our grace and truth comes from the WORD that became flesh.    




To begin, I went to Bible Gateway and checked four of the versions on Acts 6:8.  And the footnote on the NKJV said of the word grace that it had been used in the Alexandrian or Egyptian type of text and it is the oldest but sometimes questioned text. Here.


I beg to differ about the possibility of ordinary people being full of grace, although I think it is an extraordinary level of faith.  As Jesus teaches, Matt 10;24-25, " It is enough for the disciple to become like his teacher,".  Another proof from the Gospels would be where Jesus promises to send his advocate after he is gone and that "you" will be able to do even greater things because "I" am with you.  And another thing I would associate with this is one who is one with Christ as Christ prays in the garden the night before he died.  


I do not believe Jesus came to maintain separation from humanity, but to end our separation from him.  I think this is key to faith.  The more we are one with Him, the more grace we will have.  How else can we do the Father's will? 




If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. --Isaiah 58:10
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2 years ago  ::  Feb 18, 2013 - 2:52PM #8
voice-crying
Posts: 7,222

Feb 18, 2013 -- 9:39AM, smcisaac wrote:


That's hard to believe, but if so, they are of course mistaken.




I think most people understand that "faith" is one's own belief and trust, while "grace" is an undeserved favor or blessing from an external source.



Amen!



Feb 18, 2013 -- 9:39AM, smcisaac wrote:



I thnk that if Jesus is perceived as being "full of grace" it probably means he has a limitless capacity to extend grace to others.



Amen, Jesus extends (gives) grace. 



Feb 18, 2013 -- 9:39AM, smcisaac wrote:



However, it's worthwhile to compare the same word in the original Greek where it describes Mary in Luke 1:28.



"And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." Luke 1:28 KJV


Some scholars think that it was: Pope Urban IV (born 1195; was pope from 1261 until his death in 1264), who first used the term: "Hail Mary" I think that [some] people have been reciting that quote so long that they actually believe that it is scriptural.



Feb 18, 2013 -- 9:39AM, smcisaac wrote:



Some English translations describe Mary as being "full of grace" herself, while others describe her (more accurately, I think, given the context) as being "highly favored" by God. (John 1:14 also includes the Greek word for "full" explicitly, while Luke 1:28 does not.) If the usage in John 1:14 were read consistently with that in Luke 1:28, I think it would mean that Jesus was highly favored by God's grace in the same way that Mary was, rather than a source of divine grace in his own right.



JESUS: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14 KJV.


Mary: "And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." Luke 1:28 KJV.


Mary was highly favored (among women). Jesus was GOD incarnate (the second in the GODHEAD). There is a big difference. 


Feb 18, 2013 -- 9:39AM, smcisaac wrote:


Since Luke and John were two different authors writing from separate perspectives, though, they do not necessarily need to be construed for consistency.



Luke, John and all of the other writers are consistent; otherwise the Bible would just be: 66 condensed books...it would not be the WORD of GOD. I hadn't given it any thought before yesterday, but, the truth is: it is wrong to say that anyone is "full of grace" other than Jesus. GOD'S grace (favor-charis) to us, is not the same as our favor-charis, from HIM. 


 

Saved by Grace
1  And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2  wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3  among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4  But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5  even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, Col. 2.13 (by grace ye are saved;)
6  and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7  that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace, in his kindness toward us, through Christ Jesus.
8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9  not of works, lest any man should boast.
10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


 Ephesians 2:1-10





"Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."Proverbs 18:21
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2 years ago  ::  Feb 18, 2013 - 3:02PM #9
voice-crying
Posts: 7,222

Feb 18, 2013 -- 1:23PM, Gacogal wrote:


"grace" not only means mercy and pardon, but it also means attractive qualities, goodwill, and favor. Therefore, Mary being full of grace would also be Mary being full of [God's] favor, and Mary being full of goodwill, would it not? And could she not have been a woman full of mercy, one who extended forgiveness to others readily?




I love and admire Mary for taking the task of becoming the mother of Jesus our Lord and Savior. Mary could (while she was alive) forgive those who trespassed against her. But, of course she could not forgive sins (against GOD)...only GOD can do that. I believe that when Jesus calls us up to be with HIM in His FATHER'S house that Mary will be first in line.   

"Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."Proverbs 18:21
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2 years ago  ::  Feb 18, 2013 - 3:26PM #10
Gacogal
Posts: 1,088

Feb 18, 2013 -- 3:02PM, voice-crying wrote:

Feb 18, 2013 -- 1:23PM, Gacogal wrote:


"grace" not only means mercy and pardon, but it also means attractive qualities, goodwill, and favor. Therefore, Mary being full of grace would also be Mary being full of [God's] favor, and Mary being full of goodwill, would it not? And could she not have been a woman full of mercy, one who extended forgiveness to others readily?




I love and admire Mary for taking the task of becoming the mother of Jesus our Lord and Savior. Mary could (while she was alive) forgive those who trespassed against her. But, of course she could not forgive sins (against GOD)...only GOD can do that. I believe that when Jesus calls us up to be with HIM in His FATHER'S house that Mary will be first in line.   


I agree. And being a mother myself, I often think of the depth of Mary's faith. To know from before conception that you're child will not be "yours". To watch Him grow up, head out on His own, aquire followers and enemies, to put Himself up against the sins of all mankind, past, present, and future, then watch Him arrested, persecuted, scourged, and crucified, and knowing all along He could stop it! . . . and all the while holding to her faith that it is God's will that must be done.  Can you imagine the anguish and the faith it took to endure?

Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it. (Proverbs 4:23)
What you say flows from what is in your heart. (Luke 6:45b)
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