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Locked: In what sense can Jesus be considered a god?
1 year ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 3:12PM #1
whaledone
Posts: 122
     Psalms says it thusly "I have said, You are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."  So by this standard Jesus is definitely god as we all are.   Silesius, in the 17th Century says  "I am like God, and God like me. I am as large as God, He is as small as I. He cannot above me, nor I beneath Him be." So when Jesus says.  "God and I are the same" , it seems to me stretching it greatly to assume he means he is God incarnate.  I don't want this to degradate to a debate over the Trinity.  However, I am of the opinion that just because Jesus makes the above statement does not mean he claims to be the High God.  Anther example can be taken from Genesis but I will save that for later.



What do you think.   


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1 year ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 3:48PM #2
Rgurley4
Posts: 7,806

According to the Bible, Jesus the God-Man claimed to be and proved to be a identifiable spiritual PERSON of the TRI-UNE GOD....The LOGOS made flesh... Deity poured out incarnate without loss of Deity.


That is unique is all belief systems.

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1 year ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 3:50PM #3
whaledone
Posts: 122

Can you give us a couple of examples where Jesus says he is the most high God? 

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1 year ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 4:13PM #4
Rgurley4
Posts: 7,806

...Before Abraham, "I AM"...

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1 year ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 4:14PM #5
Rgurley4
Posts: 7,806

...The Father and I are ONE...

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1 year ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 4:21PM #6
Rgurley4
Posts: 7,806

Colossians 1 :15-19
For (the TRI-UNE) God was pleased to have all his fullness (of Deity) dwell in Him,


Colossians 2 :8-9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

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1 year ago  ::  Feb 14, 2013 - 11:04AM #7
whaledone
Posts: 122

 OK thanks.  I will consider those. 

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1 year ago  ::  Feb 14, 2013 - 11:29AM #8
Rgurley4
Posts: 7,806

the mystery of the identifiable three spiritual PERSONS, one spiritual TRI-UNE GOD.


John 15:26 (NIV)...a new promise by Jesus...a snapshot of the TRI-UNE God
"When the Counselor (God the Holy Spirit) comes,
whom I (God the Son/Jesus) will send to you from the Father (God the Father),
the Spirit of TRUTH (God the Holy Spirit) who goes out from the Father (God the Father),
he (the Spirit of TRUTH) will testify (to the spirit of Man) about me.

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1 year ago  ::  Feb 16, 2013 - 10:51AM #9
OneGodApostolic
Posts: 158

Feb 13, 2013 -- 3:12PM, whaledone wrote:

     Psalms says it thusly "I have said, You are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."  So by this standard Jesus is definitely god as we all are.   Silesius, in the 17th Century says  "I am like God, and God like me. I am as large as God, He is as small as I. He cannot above me, nor I beneath Him be." So when Jesus says.  "God and I are the same" , it seems to me stretching it greatly to assume he means he is God incarnate.  I don't want this to degradate to a debate over the Trinity.  However, I am of the opinion that just because Jesus makes the above statement does not mean he claims to be the High God.  Anther example can be taken from Genesis but I will save that for later.



What do you think.   




First off, I don't believe in a trinity.


Secondly, I don't use outside sources like Silesius to address this issue.


Thirdly, Jesus never said "I am God."   He gave us multiple chances to agree with Him that He was, though.  One, His word; two, His works.  See John 14:7-11 for one example. 


The passage from Psalms should not lead us to believe that He was/is a god like is being referred to there, though.  The Almighty said that He had made Moses a god in the eyes of Pharoah.  That does mean He made Moses like Him.  The Hebrew word translated as "god" - elohim - is also used to identify common men who were rulers and judges, and it is also the word used in reference to false gods ie: idols.


The preponderance of evidence is that Jesus Christ is One Almighty God of the Bible manifested in the flesh.  We have no other example of any other human being identified as THE One Almighty God.


Either Jesus Christ was a liar or a lunatic or ....... He was telling the truth when He said:  “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End ... who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”  (Rev 1:8)

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1 year ago  ::  Feb 16, 2013 - 1:24PM #10
Jenandew7
Posts: 12,274

Feb 13, 2013 -- 3:12PM, whaledone wrote:

     Psalms says it thusly "I have said, You are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."  So by this standard Jesus is definitely god as we all are.   Silesius, in the 17th Century says  "I am like God, and God like me. I am as large as God, He is as small as I. He cannot above me, nor I beneath Him be." So when Jesus says.  "God and I are the same" , it seems to me stretching it greatly to assume he means he is God incarnate.  I don't want this to degradate to a debate over the Trinity.  However, I am of the opinion that just because Jesus makes the above statement does not mean he claims to be the High God.  Anther example can be taken from Genesis but I will save that for later.



What do you think.   




I definitely think this is worthy of consideration.  The most important thing this line of reasoning will help solidify is our own nature and our hope for this life through faith.  In Genesis, when God created Adam, he created him in his image and likeness.  God is Spirit.  And this is the way in which he created Adam to be like himself.  It is our true nature. 


Jesus?  He is extraoridinary, but human, too.  And being human meant that he relied on his spiritual self the way we need to aim to do.  In the Gospels we do see that he spent a great deal of time praying to the Father.   The most notable, of course, were his forty days and forty nights in the wilderness.  But when he was preaching, he would go off by himself for what sounds like a good while in order to pray.  We see him claim to have healed through the Holy Spirit and, if we were to heal, this is the way we could do so, too.  But he seems to have perfectly done so, never wavering, never relying on his "own" human will, but always on God.  In Luke, in the garden, he prays to have this cup pass by him, but relents to God's will. 


He promised that, after he was gone, we would be able to do even greater things than he had done once he was with the Father.  I believe this is true.  But we will do this through him.  I have gained some insight into this through reading about the ancient and worldwide practice of shamistic practice.  The shaman/sorcerer/medicine man (woman)/priest/priestess will go into a trance and enter into the spiritual worlds, the upper or, as in the case of sorcerers, the lower, and will often rely on a great shaman who has already passed on.  We can do nothing of ourselves, this scripture does say.  (Note that Christianity is not the only religion, that we humans all, in Christianspeak, are made in the image and likeness of God, which means that all of us are created with a spiritual nature.)


As spiritual members of his body, we can "see" the image of God in others.  We can be aware of the spiritual nature of others who are not even aware of their own.  Recognizing this, we are also recognizing and acknowledging the perfect person that is created by God, the true nature of the person. 


Christians do themselves a disservice and actually deny faith by parroting the Holy Trinity and at the same time denying our nature--even though Christ himself tried to teach us about that nature, showed us how to live by faith, practiced the mercy and loving kindness that grows spirituality.  By actually putting Jesus on a throne, separating him from ourselves, where he, like the Father, is held to be unapproachable, we cheat ourselves out of the very promise of realizing our own true natures, to be one with Christ and claiming the benefit of faith.  Jesus did not do this.  The model of his life was to be born of humble birth, to live as one of us, to call to working men to follow him and be his disciples, to preach to the poor, the needy, the hungry, the sick, the oppressed and those on the margins of society.  He was not born to high estate and did not separate himself from the common man.  This Christians apparently do not think about hard enough. 


The Holy Trinity was a way of seeing the way that God interacted with us, not a separating device, but a unifying device, where humanity, through Christ, enters into the relationship with the godhead. 

If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. --Isaiah 58:10
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