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Switch to Forum Live View FAITH / BELIEF led by the Spirit PLUS "nothing" = SALVATION
2 years ago  ::  Dec 05, 2012 - 3:09PM #1
Rgurley4
Posts: 8,653

Spirit-led FAITH is virtually identical to Spirit-led BELIEF.


In Classical Christian (Christ-follower) Understanding, "Faith" is:
(1)  Knowledge ( of "God" ) ...spirit-led "Belief?"
(2)  Assent ( to "God" ) ...spirit-guided "Follower?"
(3)  Trust ( in "God" ) ...spirit-filled "Lordship?"


Spiritual Belief / Faith is more than simple
KNOWLEDGE / ACCEPTANCE as a TRUE FACT.


"faith" occurs 250 times in 232 verses in the NASB...all but 4 are in the NT.
Koine Greek most used meaning...
G4102  pistis  (pe'-stes) ~=  faith, assurance, believe, belief, them that believe, fidelity


"Believe" occurs 152 times in 140 verses in the NASB...mostly in the NT.
Koine Greek most used meaning...
G4103  pistos  (pe-sto's) =   ~faithful, believe, believing, true, faithfully, believer, sure
G4100  pisteuo  (pe-styü'-o)  = ~believe, commit unto, commit to (one's) trust, be committed unto, be put in trust with, be commited to one's trust, believer
  
Christ-followers believe / have faith in the TRI-UNE GOD, a Person of pure and perfect SPIRIT.
God has revealed Himself primarily through the spirit-inspired and superintended Bible...a compass, not a map!...TRUTHS, not just commands!
MY hopes and beliefs are SPIRITUAL in nature, and God's spirit interacts with my Body / SOUL / SPIRIT to guide me in life.

Spirit-led FAITH / BELIEF in the Jesus / TRI-UNE GOD is the ONLY requirement for SALVATION!

Ephesians 2:8 (NASB)
For by GRACE (unmerited favor)  you have been SAVED through FAITH (from eternal death by BELIEF in Jesus the God-Man)
and that (faith) not of yourselves (human "knowledge"),
it is the (spiritual) GIFT of God.

John 1:12 (NASB)
...But as many as RECEIVED Him (spiritually!), to them He gave the right to become children of God , even to those who BELIEVE (G4100) in His NAME,...

John 6: 28-29
28 Then they (disciples) asked him, "What must we do to do the WORKS God requires?"
29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to BELIEVE in the one he has sent."

"The CONDITION(S) for SALVATION...
Salvation is conditioned solely on FAITH / (BELIEF) in Jesus The Christ.
("repentance" may be a SYNONYM when understood to be a "re-thinking and a "turning around")
Nearly 200 times FAITH (or BELIEF) is stated as the single condition in the New Testament.
That FAITH must be placed in Jesus he Christ as one's substutute for and Savior from sin (/sins)...
REF: Ryrie Study Bible...expanded NASB...p. 2073


The FALSE "traditional" additions to spirit- FAITH / Belief ??

There are NO OTHER CONDITIONS other than accepting this spiritual GIFT of GRACE through spirit-led FAITH / BELIEF!!:
1. NOT Repentance...which is nothing more than re-thinking...spiritually turning toward God...you don't have to be "purified".
2. NOT Confession...which is simply spiritually agreeing with God...you don't have to "come forward" / be public.
3. NOT Surrender...although you might want to dedicate yourself later as thanks for being saved now.
4. NOT Water / Ritual Baptism...although this is a traditional outward sign of a believer's inward spiritual change.

The FAITH -WORKS debate AND how to spiritually handle Sin/ Sin(s)/ Sin Nature  (estrangement from the Tri-Une God)
in the lives of the saved/unsaved is the greatest chasm among Christian denominations?

What are your "doctrines"?

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 05, 2012 - 4:31PM #2
Want to know
Posts: 1,671

Rgurley said-----What are your "doctrines"?


 


I believe in a loving God and giving my heart to him. I belive in following the teachings of Jesus. I don't know what is fact or what is metaphor in the Bible. As far as the Trinity, I really don't know. Not much for details.  I believe God talks to one if they will listen. I pray and have my walk with Him. I think that is all He ask. I listen to my heart more than what ancient men have written. I think God talks to me as much as He did them.

"Now we see as through a glass, darkly but then face to face:  now I know in part, but then shall I know even as also I am known."  I Corinthians 13:12
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2 years ago  ::  Dec 05, 2012 - 6:27PM #3
Ironhold
Posts: 11,490

As noted in James, a person can proclaim their salvation all day long, but their words mean nothing if their actions don't back it up.

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 05, 2012 - 11:02PM #4
Rgurley4
Posts: 8,653

To paraphrase James...(~James 2:18-26)


(SAVING spiritual) "FAITH" (/ Belief) without (following spiritual good) "works" is "dead" (judged to be spiritully useless.)



Believers are SAVED UNTO "good works". Ephesians 2: 8-10


Unless the Spirit is comforting and guiding you into SPIRITUAL "good works",
humanistic "works" are viewed by God as being prideful, "filthy clothes".
Imperfect Human "good works" cannot reconcile you with a perfect TRI-UNE GOD.


An unbeliever's deeds will be judged as part of the Great White Throne SENTENCING! SEE: Revelation 20: 11-15



A believer's spiritual deeds after salvation will be judged by the Jesus at the "bema" seat...
the awards platform...where only spiritually "good works" survive.


SEE: 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 ; 2 Corinthians 5: ~10

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 06, 2012 - 9:11AM #5
cg4truth
Posts: 108

As I said in the baptism thread. Baptism was part of the great commision (Mark 16:16, Mat 28:19) and is given as the pattern to follow to recieve forgiveness of sins in the book of Acts (Brethren, what shall we do? Peter said to them "Repent and EACH ONE OF YOU be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." The very first believers were commanded to be baptized and so were the rest.


Being "baptized with the Holy Spirit" is the one baptism of a Christian (Eph 4) which is in line with John the Baptists teaching of the one who would come after him. It occurs simultaneously with water baptism. Hence John 3 "unless one is born of water and the spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."


Why would anyone consider baptism to be a "work." Paul never gives us that impression. Baptism is an act of faith. Unfortunately, not many people have faith that God will do what He said He would do when one is baptized. They consider it a meaningless ritual. Wonder what God thinks about that pride?


With Love,


CG

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 06, 2012 - 12:30PM #6
Rgurley4
Posts: 8,653

Water / Ritual "Baptism" is not a CONDITION of spiritual salvation.

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 06, 2012 - 2:19PM #7
cg4truth
Posts: 108

I guess God gave us the choice to accept the truth in His word or accept the error taught by men. There is no scriptural backing for the exclusion of water baptism as a CONDITION for one's initial obedience to the gospel. There is no indication that it is in any way a ritual. The phrases "for the remission of sins" and "shall be saved" follow the first passages discussing a believer's baptism. Baptism is given as the example throughout Acts and is mentioned and defined throughout the NT letters. Our Lord said one must be baptized to be saved. Why doubt Him?

Moderated by Mlyons619 on Dec 06, 2012 - 05:22PM
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2 years ago  ::  Dec 06, 2012 - 5:21PM #8
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,571

So if a person accepts Jesus to come live in his heart and then dies, he is HELLBOUND?


I submit that a person IS baptised the moment when he repents and turns to Jesus.


See Matthew 3:11.

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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2 years ago  ::  Dec 07, 2012 - 10:52AM #9
cg4truth
Posts: 108

So if a hypothetical situation is all I can come up with to verify my belief, I care nothing about what the scriptures say. That is like saying if someone won the lottery but died on the way to claim thier ticket, they still won the lottery. Yes, but they didn't recieve the money. One who dies before being baptized hasn't recieved the washing that the Bible says forgives them of sins. Do you know of an instance where one was UNABLE to be baptized who understood that baptism was for the forgiveness of sins? It hardly ever happens, if ever and God is the judge in those cases. (God even provided the water for the eunuch.)


Although you may not see it this way, it is more proposterous to say that one who has not been baptized is saved than it is to say that the one who has not been baptized is not saved. Scriptures point to baptism as the way one enters into Christ's body (the church of the saved) and the point at which one recieves the Holy Spirit and forgiveness of sins. To say that one is saved without baptism is to speak where we have no instruction from God's word. I am not proud enough of my own thinking to say God approves of the one who refuses to be baptized when the scriptures say each one of you be baptized FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS. 


You point to Matt 3:11 which indicates that the baptism that John was doing in water was just to show repentance (symbolic), but the baptism of Jesus would actually contain power. There is only one baptism now (Eph 4). One is not baptized with the Holy Spirit when they believe then baptized with water symbolically. THERE IS ONE BAPTISM. There is no scripture to back up your belief. Please feel free to share a passage that says that.


They only reason this doctrine ever came about was because of man's prideful nature. Thinking "I know better than to believe what the scriptures say about baptism" is pure foolishness and disobedience. I'm sorry to sound harsh, but the letters in the NT are harsh when dealing with a false teaching because many are led astray and need to be zapped out of it.


Satan works in the prideful nature of man. Let us be sure that we humbly submit to God's word instead of believing what we desire to be true.

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2 years ago  ::  Dec 07, 2012 - 2:58PM #10
Mlyons619
Posts: 16,571

Dec 7, 2012 -- 10:52AM, cg4truth wrote:


Do you know of an instance where one was UNABLE to be baptized who understood that baptism was for the forgiveness of sins? It hardly ever happens, if ever and God  is the judge in those cases. (God even provided the water for the eunuch.)



Are you saying that anyone who is NOT water-baptized (e.g., a ritual performed by MAN) is doomed, even if he turns to Jesus (a part of the TRIUNE GOD) at the last moment of his life?


Jesus said, “Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6)


Dec 7, 2012 -- 10:52AM, cg4truth wrote:


I am not proud enough of my own thinking to say God approves of the one who refuses to be baptized when the scriptures say each one of you be baptized FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS… One is not baptized with the Holy Spirit when they believe then baptized with water symbolically. THERE IS ONE BAPTISM. There is no scripture to back up your belief. Please feel free to share a passage that says that…



There is indeed “one baptism.” (Ephesian 4:5) but I submit it is the LORD’S baptism when you are baptized by Him with the HOLY SPIRIT and with FIRE. (Matthew 3:11).


I do not reject water baptism.  I received an Episcopal baptism when I was an infant.  It did not, however, make me a believer.  I did not come to know Christ until I was 18.  At that moment, I WAS BAPTISED IN THE HOLY SPIRIT AND WITH FIRE.  It was at that moment I believed and I accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior.  I was full-immersion baptized later before witnesses in the Church I joined.


BEFORE WITNESSES – symbolic of the fact I was now one of their members.


So what did John the Baptist mean when he said that the one who came after him (JESUS) would baptize with the HOLY SPIRIT?  THAT is the Scripture I cite when I say that JESUS’s baptism supersedes all ritual baptisms performed by man.


Dec 7, 2012 -- 10:52AM, cg4truth wrote:


They only reason this doctrine ever came about was because of man's prideful nature. Thinking "I know better than to believe what the scriptures say about baptism" is pure foolishness and disobedience. I'm sorry to sound harsh, but the letters in the NT are harsh when dealing with a false teaching because many are led astray and need to be zapped out of it.




“Judge not lest ye be judged.”  (Matt. 7:1).


Dec 7, 2012 -- 10:52AM, cg4truth wrote:


Satan works in the prideful nature of man. Let us be sure that we humbly submit to God's word instead of believing what we desire to be true.




No argument.  We are to behave as Christians as Peter, Paul, and John the Younger would teach of in their Letters.  Satan would also have us turn on one another too.  God’s commandment on judgment does not merely extend only to non-believers, but to fellow Christians themselves.

"No freedom without education"
            --Thomas Jefferson

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition"
            -- Monty Python
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