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Switch to Forum Live View Jesus appointed St. Peter as His prime minister of the Church
2 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2012 - 2:43PM #1
cristoiglesia
Posts: 66
Commentary on Isaiah 22 and its relation to St. Peter

Certainly in Matthew 16 Jesus is referring to the prophecy of Isaiah in Isaiah 22 and in doing so He is fulfilling the prophetic imagery prophesied by the prophet Isaiah. The prime minister referred to by Isaiah is a type for the appointment of St. Peter to be the leader, steward and authority over His family or household. It further emphasizes by Christ’s actions in His appointment that He, Jesus, having received the throne of David by virtue of His Father is asserting His claim to the throne of David and as the rightful successor as king of all of Judah and Israel. He fulfills this by asserting the legal precedent necessary to fulfill prophecy and appoints St. Peter as the steward over His kingdom. He is claiming by this action what He came to do which was to establish a new and enduring Covenant with His Kingdom. But was this Kingdom fully established at this time or was it just a stepping stone to the establishing of His Kingdom in His appointment of St. Peter in Matthew 16? Certainly, the time had not yet come for the Prime Minister, St. Peter, to exercise the power of the keys for Christ had not yet revealed His glory or made claim to His kingdom with the establishment of the New Covenant. This would not happen until Calvary where Jesus would from the cross drink of the cup of consummation from the hyssop branch and then utter the words, “it is finished” after which He gave up His Spirit and His glory was revealed. He would finish His redemptive work three days later when He raised from the dead. Only then was all prophecy fulfilled and the law satisfied. St. Peter was now endowed with the Authority of Christ to be the royal steward over Christ’s kingdom. So great was this authority that He had the authority to bind or loose on earth as well as in heaven and became the spiritual father of Christ’s family. The keys represent the supremacy of the power bestowed on St. Peter and he is fastened on a peg and carries the weight of maintaining the King’s (Christ’s) house. So great are the parallels between Eliakim and St. Peter that it is implausible to deny that Eliakim is a type for St. Peter. The new kingdom is not a kingdom of land and of a people but it is the establishment of a spiritual kingdom of God and not of men. Keeping with the typology the office of Eliakim was an enduring office and so too is the office that St. Peter to which he has been appointed. Only the prime minister holds the keys of supreme authority and not only the first among equals but the special and singular authority among the disciples and visible head of the Church.

Let us look directly at the parallels between Isaiah 22 and Matthew 16.

The prime minister in David’s household had successors:

Isa 22:15, 1 Kings 4:6, & 18:3, 2 Kings 10:5, 15:5, 18:18

We see the full authority given to the prime minister:

Isa 22:22, Mat 16:19, Rev 3:7

Further teaching of the authority of the prime minister:

Mat 24:45, Luk 12:42, Gen 41:40, Gen 43:19

God bless!

In Christ
Fr. Joseph
http://fiatvolvntastua.blogspot.com/
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2012 - 3:07PM #2
Rgurley4
Posts: 8,952

OBJECTION: Discourses such as this should be removed to "Discuss Catholicism".

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2 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2012 - 3:21PM #3
cristoiglesia
Posts: 66

Nov 13, 2012 -- 3:07PM, Rgurley4 wrote:


OBJECTION: Discourses such as this should be removed to "Discuss Catholicism".




This section is for Christians to debate one another. If you do not desire to participate you are not required to do so. God bless!



In Christ


Fr. Joseph

http://fiatvolvntastua.blogspot.com/
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2012 - 3:30PM #4
Rgurley4
Posts: 8,952

Jesus WAS / IS the "kingdom of God". He alone is the "key" to eternal life...The Way, the Truth, the Life...the Cornerstone of the "Church".


Matthew 16 ...Peter’s Confession of Christ
Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His DISCIPLES,
“Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”
And they said,
“Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.”
He said to THEM
“But who do you say that I am?”
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ (Messiah), the Son of the living God.” (Divine)
And Jesus said to him,
“Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you,
but My Father who is in heaven.(spiritual revelation)
I also say to you that you are Peter (petros=Rocky!), and upon this (spiritual revelation) "rock" (petra = foundation)
I will build My CHURCH;
and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
(Begin the Apostolic Age of Jesus' Disciples)...
I will give you (Disciples) the keys of the kingdom of heaven (spiritual revelation / faith in Christ);
and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven,
and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”...(until you die!)
Then He warned the DISCIPLES that they should tell no one that He WAS the Christ.

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2 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2012 - 3:49PM #5
cristoiglesia
Posts: 66

Nov 13, 2012 -- 3:30PM, Rgurley4 wrote:


Jesus WAS / IS the "kingdom of God". He alone is the "key" to eternal life...The Way, the Truth, the Life...the Cornerstone of the "Church".


Matthew 16 ...Peter’s Confession of Christ
Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His DISCIPLES,
“Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”
And they said,
“Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.”
He said to THEM
“But who do you say that I am?”
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ (Messiah), the Son of the living God.” (Divine)
And Jesus said to him,
“Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you,
but My Father who is in heaven.(spiritual revelation)
I also say to you that you are Peter (petros=Rocky!), and upon this (spiritual revelation) "rock" (petra = foundation)
I will build My CHURCH;
and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
(Begin the Apostolic Age of Jesus' Disciples)...
I will give you (Disciples) the keys of the kingdom of heaven (spiritual revelation / faith in Christ);
and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven,
and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”...(until you die!)
Then He warned the DISCIPLES that they should tell no one that He WAS the Christ.





There is no contextual evidence to support you contention which is based on prejudice alone. Jesus was instead fulfilling the prophecy of Isaiah that the Messiah would appoint a prime minister of His Church. This is one of the prophecies so that we can know who is the true Messiah so if Jesus did not do this then he has no prophetic credentials in this respect to be the true Messiah prophesied as the Messiah will fulfill all prophesies but you are claiming that this one prophecy Jesus did not fulfill. The ridiculous contention that Jesus was only recognizing St. Peters belief is ridiculous both contextually and by the language used. For what purpose would this recording of Jesus.’ words serve otherwise. Surely the writer was recording Jesus fulfilling prophecy and not making an idle comment with no purpose. Instead He was recording the fulfillment of prophecy as well as ordaining the enduring office of  prime minister of the Church. God bless!



In Christ


Fr. Joseph

http://fiatvolvntastua.blogspot.com/
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2012 - 4:10PM #6
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
i think that this is a long-held (and possibly deliberate) misinterpretation of Christ's words, that Peter was to be the earthly head of Christ's church(and patently ridiculous on it's face; Christ, and Christ ALONE, is the Head of His Ekklesia, for He clearly stated at the Last Supper that NONE who are His are to exercise either authority or dominion over their fellow-believers, as did the Gentiles over one another).

i think it clear that what Christ was referring to was as RGurley stated---the REVELATION that He is the Annointed One is the "rock" upon which His church is to be built, not that Peter was that Rock---there is no salvation in Peter, but in Christ the Head, and none are His equal, nor are any to attempt to usurp(or assume) His power and authority and dominion in any sense whatsoever, save as He-the-Head EXPRESSLY stated.

In fact, in another testimony of Christ i've read, it was stated that calling Simon/Peter "the Rock" was sortof an in-joke amongst the Twelve, for Peter changed his mind and heart with lightning-speed, as evidenced in the incident where, again at the Last Supper, Peter first refused to allow Our Lord to wash his feet---then when Christ made His declaration, Peter immediately demanded that not only his feet, but also his head be washed---remember?

And if that one don't signify with you, then recall how often and vociferously Peter proclaimed his faithfulness unto death, and how sadly our Lord remonstrated with Peter, prophesying that before the cock crowed, Peter'd deny Christ THRICE.

So the REVELATION that He is the Annointed One is the Rock upon which the Ekklesia is to be built is the thing, not that such an unstable, flighty, mercurial, double-minded individual be accepted as the foundation-stone of the Called-Out of Christ.

i think it quite clear that Christ desired a NATION of priests, none greater, none lesser-than another, SAVE BY DINT OF SUPERIOR SERVICE in humility...and humility requires obedience to the One who said that we are NOT to exercise ANY authority over our fellow-believers.

If you doubt(and you're free to do just that), visit a bible-search website like www.biblegateway.com/keyword and put the phrase "not be so" into your search window.

Then you have to decide whether or not you believe that Christ said what He meant and meant what He said---or not.

Warmest regards-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2012 - 4:13PM #7
Rgurley4
Posts: 8,952

Who was Peter as revealed by Paul and Peter's letters??


Galatians 2:11; 14-21 [ Peter (Cephas) Opposed by Paul ] ...FAITH ..not WORKS
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned....
But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel,
I said to Cephas in the presence of all,
 “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?
“We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles;
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus,
even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law;
since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
 But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin?
May it never be!
For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor.
For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.
I have been crucified with Christ;
and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me;
and the life which I now live in the flesh
I live by faith in the Son of God,
who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”



1 Peter 3:18
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous (Jesus) for the unrighteous (us),
to bring you to God.
He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,


1 Peter 1: 1 ...Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
2 Peter 1: 1...Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
2 Peter 1: 1-3 This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder,
that you should remember the words spoken beforehand
by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your APOSTLES...
2 Peter 3: 15-16
just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,
as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand,
which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.



1 Peter 1: 23 for you have been "born again", not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.


1 Peter 2...all believers!
5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood,
to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ


1 Peter 5
5 Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your FELLOW ELDER and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and
a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed,
(to) shepherd the flock of God among you,
exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God;


1 Peter 512-14
Through Silvanus, our faithful BROTHER (for so I regard him),
I have written to you briefly, exhorting and testifying that this is the true grace of God.
Stand firm in it!
She who is in Babylon (Rome?), chosen together with you,
sends you greetings, and so does my son, Mark.
Greet one another with a kiss of love.
Peace be to you all who are in Christ.

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2 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2012 - 4:42PM #8
cristoiglesia
Posts: 66

Nov 13, 2012 -- 4:10PM, Hatman wrote:

i think that this is a long-held (and possibly deliberate) misinterpretation of Christ's words, that Peter was to be the earthly head of Christ's church(and patently ridiculous on it's face; Christ, and Christ ALONE, is the Head of His Ekklesia, for He clearly stated at the Last Supper that NONE who are His are to exercise either authority or dominion over their fellow-believers, as did the Gentiles over one another).

i think it clear that what Christ was referring to was as RGurley stated---the REVELATION that He is the Annointed One is the "rock" upon which His church is to be built, not that Peter was that Rock---there is no salvation in Peter, but in Christ the Head, and none are His equal, nor are any to attempt to usurp(or assume) His power and authority and dominion in any sense whatsoever, save as He-the-Head EXPRESSLY stated.

In fact, in another testimony of Christ i've read, it was stated that calling Simon/Peter "the Rock" was sortof an in-joke amongst the Twelve, for Peter changed his mind and heart with lightning-speed, as evidenced in the incident where, again at the Last Supper, Peter first refused to allow Our Lord to wash his feet---then when Christ made His declaration, Peter immediately demanded that not only his feet, but also his head be washed---remember?

And if that one don't signify with you, then recall how often and vociferously Peter proclaimed his faithfulness unto death, and how sadly our Lord remonstrated with Peter, prophesying that before the cock crowed, Peter'd deny Christ THRICE.

So the REVELATION that He is the Annointed One is the Rock upon which the Ekklesia is to be built is the thing, not that such an unstable, flighty, mercurial, double-minded individual be accepted as the foundation-stone of the Called-Out of Christ.

i think it quite clear that Christ desired a NATION of priests, none greater, none lesser-than another, SAVE BY DINT OF SUPERIOR SERVICE in humility...and humility requires obedience to the One who said that we are NOT to exercise ANY authority over our fellow-believers.

If you doubt(and you're free to do just that), visit a bible-search website like www.biblegateway.com/keyword and put the phrase "not be so" into your search window.

Then you have to decide whether or not you believe that Christ said what He meant and meant what He said---or not.

Warmest regards-

Hatman


If what you claim is true then Jesus did not fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah and as a result he did not fulfill what is necessary to be the Messiah prophesied. Is this your position? If not who was the one that fulfilled this prophecy?


The appointing of St. Peter as the prime minister of the Church does not usurp the authority of Christ but confirms that authority instead. Jesus is clearly the high priest and cornerstone of the Church as the Scripture teaches but St. Peter is also clearly taught as His prime minister which is an enduring office ordained by Christ. As a result St. Peter is called the servant of servants and the lowest of all humanity. the Church throughout history has believed and taught that St. Peter and his successors are the first among equals because they alone hold the office of prime minister and have held that office throughout the 2000 year history of the Church. History has proven that choosing St. Peter as the prime minister was the right choice for those that question Jesus' decisions.


The facts are that the Church was given all of the Authority of Christ to teach faith and morals and that autority is an enduring authority through apostolic succession. Jesus gave us an enduring authoity for an enduring Church.


We can know His will since He prayed the night before His arrest  to the Father that we all be one in His Church as He and the Father are one".


St. Ignatius of Antioch who was the disciple of St. John and St. Peter said in defining the Church that the Church are those who gather around the bishop. Saying "where the bishop is there is the Church". The Church is a real and tangible reality represented by St. Peter and his successors and the successors of the apostles. It is visable in this sense but invisible only in that Jesus knows the hearts of men.


It is totally ridiculous to state that Jesus did not appoint St. Peter as His prime minister as it would obviously reveal that Jesus is not the Messiah prophesied. Jesus gave the keys of a prime minister to St. Peter and gave to the Church all authority to bind in heaven what is bound on earth. Deny it all you want but this is the Word of God. God bless!



In Christ


Fr. Joseph

http://fiatvolvntastua.blogspot.com/
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2012 - 4:49PM #9
cristoiglesia
Posts: 66

Nov 13, 2012 -- 4:13PM, Rgurley4 wrote:

Who was Peter as revealed by Paul and Peter's letters??


Galatians 2:11; 14-21 [ Peter (Cephas) Opposed by Paul ] ...FAITH ..not WORKS
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned....
But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel,
I said to Cephas in the presence of all,
 “If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?
“We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles;
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus,
even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law;
since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
 But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin?
May it never be!
For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor.
For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.
I have been crucified with Christ;
and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me;
and the life which I now live in the flesh
I live by faith in the Son of God,
who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”



1 Peter 3:18
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous (Jesus) for the unrighteous (us),
to bring you to God.
He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,


1 Peter 1: 1 ...Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
2 Peter 1: 1...Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
2 Peter 1: 1-3 This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder,
that you should remember the words spoken beforehand
by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your APOSTLES...
2 Peter 3: 15-16
just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,
as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand,
which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.



1 Peter 1: 23 for you have been "born again", not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.


1 Peter 2...all believers!
5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood,
to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ


1 Peter 5
5 Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your FELLOW ELDER and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and
a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed,
(to) shepherd the flock of God among you,
exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God;


1 Peter 512-14
Through Silvanus, our faithful BROTHER (for so I regard him),
I have written to you briefly, exhorting and testifying that this is the true grace of God.
Stand firm in it!
She who is in Babylon (Rome?), chosen together with you,
sends you greetings, and so does my son, Mark.
Greet one another with a kiss of love.
Peace be to you all who are in Christ.


I recognise your wall of Scripture but it is quite obscure as to why you posted them and what you think they illustrate.


What do you think they do to contribute to the discussion? God bless!



In Christ


Fr. Joseph

http://fiatvolvntastua.blogspot.com/
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2 years ago  ::  Nov 13, 2012 - 4:53PM #10
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
It is obvious to me that a) you didn't bother to look up Christ's words to His Disciples at the Last Supper, and b) you will neither countenance His words nor believe them, for to do so would mean that all your submission to those who pretend to His authority and dominion on earth are simply neither to be believed nor obeyed, which would throw your paradigm seriously out-of-whack.

That's ok; it has been extremely rare(IME) that anyone has ever reacted positively to paradigm-destroying information.

And by your capitalization of "the Church," i assume you mean the Roman Catholic church, yes?

Do you know where you find His true Church?  Right where He is, right where He said He'd be:  "wherever two or more of you are gathered together in My Name, there am I, in your midst."  Pretensions otherwise are simply ridiculous claims, unsupported by Christ, whom i treasure---and those who pretend to be "the Church," i generally hold to be unworthy of belief or trust to the least degree, especially when such as these---when confronted with Christ's actual words---reject them in favor of the "tradition" passed down through the ages by those who have exercised the VERY dominion and authority over fellow-believers that Christ Himself forbade!

For another example, did Christ forbid His disciples from calling anyone on earth father, teacher, or master?  That'd be a yes-or-no answer to that question, son.

Warmest regards-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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