Post Reply
Page 1 of 3  •  1 2 3 Next
1 year ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 7:34AM #1
slate
Posts: 219
Here's a good debate question we have been wrestling with for the past three weeks in our Bible Class.  Does God only forgive us when we ask for forgiveness?  Or is his forgiveness always there even before we ask?
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 12:08PM #2
Iwantamotto
Posts: 7,781

God's grace is always available.  The "ask and you shall receive" thing is more of a "you have to recognize the problem exists to maximize the healing" thing.

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 12:41PM #3
Rgurley4
Posts: 7,842

To me, "forgiveness of sins" is one of the many spiritual benefits of salvation by undeserved Grace through spitit-led Faith. And for these saved believers, the sinner has to be pro-active and there are CONDITIONS.


Matthew 6 (NASB)


14 For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.


Matthew 18:21-22..."70 X 7"


Matthew 18:35 "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."


Mark 11:25 ...And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone,
forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.


Luke 6: 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
37 "Do not judge, and you will not be judged.
Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.
Forgive, and you will be forgiven.



Luke 17: 3 So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. 4 If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, `I repent,' ....forgive him."


1 John 1: 8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just
and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar
and his word has no place in our lives.

Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Nov 12, 2012 - 9:19PM #4
smcisaac
Posts: 7,700

And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.  Then said Jesus, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."  Luke 23:33-34

"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way."  Gospel of Philip, Logion 72

"Christ will regenerate all things; through Him all things will be purged, and return into eternal life. And when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father, all things will be God; that is, all things will still exist, but God will exist in them, and they will be full of Him." Fabius Manus Victorinus, c. 350 AD
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Nov 13, 2012 - 2:05PM #5
Rgurley4
Posts: 7,842

"Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."  Luke 23:33-34


Jesus the God-Man had the Divine ability to forgive the sins of Man. Those unbelieving persons surrounding the Cross did not know that they were killing God.


Jesus was/is the substitutionary atonement for all who believed/believe in Him.

Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Nov 14, 2012 - 9:22PM #6
slate
Posts: 219

I must admit that I was surprised that there were not more responses to the inquiry.  My own belief is that God's forgiveness is always present but we can only access it when we confess our sin and desire forgiveness.  However, I have some friends who beleieve that God does not forgive us unless we ask. It is the same with us.  We must forgive even if the person who offended us does not ask for forgiveness. Our forgiving them is contingent on their asking.

Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Nov 14, 2012 - 10:09PM #7
Theo
Posts: 4,620

Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.


St. Paul spoke of Jesus as being the Savor of all men, especially those who believe. 


St. John said that... "if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 


Rom 5:1-3 > "Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God."


Therefore, the way I look at Redemption is that Christ died to take away the sin of the world, thereby granting everyone access to God's salvation and the forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ. In Christ there is forgiveness, outside of Christ, there is opportunity. God has already forgiven the sin of the world, because of what Christ did on the Cross, therefore God forgave us first, we recieve it when we wake up and come to faith in Him. 


Thus when dealing with other people, we must forgive others first just as God forgave us for the sake of His Son. It is their choice to accept our forgiveness, but it is our choice to forgive them just as God forgave us. Point being, God forgave our sins through the Cross, not when we asked... we recieved forgiveness when we asked.


~ Theophilus

Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Nov 16, 2012 - 8:47PM #8
Beautiful_Dreamer
Posts: 5,130

Slate, I think the forums ebb and flow in different times of the year. And I will definitely say I miss a lot of the people who left Bnet because of the ownership/technology changes.  But then, I've been here nine years...ten if you count my previous name scyranow.


I actually agree with you, that His forgiveness is always available even if you don't explicitly say 'forgive me'. I thought that the 'condition' for forgiveness was more about repentance and forgiving others than on saying the right words.


OTOH, there is definitely a psychological/spiritual benefit to confessing sins and asking for forgiveness, because doing that means that I have to face up to the fact that I've been doing something wrong and have fallen short.  It deepens your understanding of exactly what sin is and how to do better in the future. But it would seem that this is somewhat separate from forgiveness. I don't know.

More where that came from...

Writing I get paid to do

Beliefnet Community Host - Christian Faith and Life, Christian to Christian Debate
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Nov 18, 2012 - 11:51PM #9
Jenandew7
Posts: 12,297

Nov 16, 2012 -- 8:47PM, Beautiful_Dreamer wrote:


Slate, I think the forums ebb and flow in different times of the year. And I will definitely say I miss a lot of the people who left Bnet because of the ownership/technology changes.  But then, I've been here nine years...ten if you count my previous name scyranow.


I actually agree with you, that His forgiveness is always available even if you don't explicitly say 'forgive me'. I thought that the 'condition' for forgiveness was more about repentance and forgiving others than on saying the right words.


OTOH, there is definitely a psychological/spiritual benefit to confessing sins and asking for forgiveness, because doing that means that I have to face up to the fact that I've been doing something wrong and have fallen short.  It deepens your understanding of exactly what sin is and how to do better in the future. But it would seem that this is somewhat separate from forgiveness. I don't know.




As always, I think you said this very well. 


And, then, we can use that knowledge, that sense of remorse from owning up to what we have done, to lead a better life in the future.  In other words, though our sin is forgiven, we have another objective--to grow in faith.


A. 

If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. --Isaiah 58:10
Quick Reply
Cancel
1 year ago  ::  Nov 19, 2012 - 9:59PM #10
jesusfreakgal
Posts: 937

There is one issue that I have had with forgiveness (but thankfully never had to face). Aside from still forgiving the person, what do you do when the person you forgive (and knows you have dones so) acts like and actually believes that once they have been forgiven it means you have absolutely ZERO problem with what they did and they ARE allowed to continue with whatever they did and you cannot have a problem with it? But then I thought, when we forgive omeone, we should also include that we did/ do have a problem with what they did, we do not like more accept, nor condone it, but still nonetheless fogive that person. But what if that person still nonetheless views the situations as I said previous (this person more then likely would NOT be a Christian, IMO)? How do you deal with the situation? And what if they constantly try to have a relationship with you, and expect that you will remain friends with them (I am not talking stalking)? To me the trouble is when a non Christian wrongs a Christian. How Christians and non Christians normally view forgiveness quite differently. We know that we are commanded to forgive, just as Christ forgave us (Colossians 3:13 paraphrase). But the problem is, when a person has a wordly view of forgiveness when we do not, things might not go so well. I guess in the end all we must do as Christians is follow God and forgive others as many times as is necessary. Question: when a situation arises that requires forgiveness, and one ends up having to forgive that person over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over (and so on), is it ok to sever the relationship? Why or why not? Does it make a difference if the person is Christian vs non Christian?


JFG

Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 3  •  1 2 3 Next
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing
    Advertisement

    Beliefnet On Facebook