Love not the world... this 4th of July.

1 John 2:15-17 > Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world — the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life — is not of the Father but is of the world. Moreover, the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever. / James 4:4-5 > Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Have you ever wondered why so many Christians are totally into the military, politics, patriotism, capitalism, national pride and America exceptionalism, rugged individualism, and the first amendment right to keep and bear arms? So have I, considering what the Bible says against killing enemies and loving the world and the things of the world. Friendship with the world makes you an enemy of God, do you want to be a friend or an enemy of God?

We live in a Nation that is very interested in persuading everyone to go with the flow. The world either wants us totally involved with its agenda and persuaded according to their view of reality... whatever that might be, or they want us totally disengaged and intellectually preoccupied with sports, music or various forms of entertainment and pleasure. And when it comes to religion, the America version of the world is highly tolerant of diverse religious traditions, just so long as they further their purposes. On the Liberal side, religion basically rubber stamps the Democratic imperatives promoted by those on the left, be they religious or secular. On the Conservative side, religion is pretty much in lock step with the Military, Capitalism, and the right to keep and bear arms... and as long as we vote Republican, they tolerate our Pro-life stance.

Have any of you taken the time to rethink the assumptions and everyday things most Americans take for granted... in the light of Scripture? For example, when Jesus taught His disciples how to pray... one of His foremost directives was for us to pray, "Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven." 

Have you ever considered how different the Country we live in would be if God's will was done on earth as it is in heaven? Do you think we would have a national history full of wars and genocide and bigotry, if our National leaders were really committed to doing the will of God on earth?

Have you ever considered the American Revolution... Was it really the will of God for our "founding fathers" to rebel against the king of England, take up arms against his Army (their Christian brothers) and fight bloody battles to win Independence... killing hundreds of thousands in the process? I tell you no... that was not the will of God. 1 Peter 2:13-17 > Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme, or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men - as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king. Our founding fathers, as noble as they sounded in the Declaration of Independence and other documents justifying their rebellion, where in open disobedience to the word of God.

In 1867 Canada became a sovereign nation - without rebelling against England, or fighting bloody wars or killing untold thousands of  Human Beings. Had America's founding fathers resisted the temptation to rebel against England and looked forward to a better day... hundreds of thousands of people would have lived out their natural lives, instead of dying in rebellion against their lawful authority. I say that the independence they coveted and killed for came at too high a price, they could have waited for a better day like Canada, or if they had to do something - Gandhi had a much better solution than war.

Have you considered the American Civil War...? 750 thousand people died, wasting both their lives and their loved ones, the most horrific loss of American lives in the history of the Nation. Oddly enough, the founding fathers of America fought a revolution so they could live in a nation based upon freedom and self-determination... but when the Southern States decided to form the Confederate Union...  President Lincoln committed the Northern States to the domination of the South, no matter the cost... and he used every slimy trick in the book to provoke war and empassion the citizens of the North to enlist in his war to subjugate the Southern States... in the name of freeing negro slaves, which sadly was nothing more than a ruse to motivate Northern Christians who openly opposed slavery.  There were Christians on both sides of that war, brother killing brother, Christian killing Christians... Was this the will of our Heavenly Father? I hardly think so... 1 Peter 2:17 > Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king. Matt 12:25-27 > "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?"

I am not a scholar of the Civil War, however I have listened to men who are, and they seem to believe that had America could have avoided the war, moreover, if they had, Slavery would have died a slow death, eventually it would have been abolished, just as happened virtually everywhere else in Western Civilization. The best thing people say about the Civil War, is the Union was preserved, and slavery was abolished... but at what cost? Where in the founding documents of America was it spelled out that the Union was indivisible? Moreover, God managed to set the Hebrew slaves free without 750 thousand people dying in a civil war with the Egyptians.

Therefore, given these two examples, and the many other wars fought by the people of this nation... what are we to do with the teachings of Jesus, who said... "Blessed are the peace makers." Should we love and celebrate a Country stained with the blood of hundreds and thousands of its own citizens... in the name of Freedom... when Jesus said... John 14:27 > "Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you."

The kind of peace this nation gives was purchased by the blood of strife and the battles of war and death... even so, the Nation sets the 4th of July aside for us to memorialize the sacrifices of those who died so the rest of us could live in a free Country... but is that the kind of peace Jesus Christ died to bring those who receive Him??? Through Christ we have peace with God, having been reconciled to God by the blood of His Cross... and He who the Son sets free shall be free indeed. Gal 5:1 > It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

But this peace and freedom Christ died to give us, in which we are to stand firm, was never designed to motivate us to fight bloody wars against evil doers, oppressors and the despots of the world... rather Jesus taught us to not resist evil people, to obey and honor the king, to love our enemies and to pray for those who spitefully use us.

I find that the patriotic things many Christians believe and do in America, are contrary to Scripture and boarder on idolatry. Therefore I am against Christians serving in the military... Jesus didn't call us to follow Him so that we could fight and die for the interests of rich and powerful men who would rather gratify their global ambitions instead of doing justly, loving mercy and walking humbly with God.

 I am against displaying the flag in Church, or singing patriotic songs in Church, or using the Church as a voting block or as a means to register people to vote. Our purpose is to worship and glorify God and to preach the Gospel to the world. America is not the kingdom of God, we own everything to our God and King, not to the flag or the Republic for which it stands. If you have to love this country - love its people, even as God so loved the world and gave us His only Son, but do not love your government, do not love Capitalism, do not love war, do not love racism, and do not celebrate the innumerable devilish things this nation has done. You cannot serve God and Mammon, so love God and His Kingdom instead, and if you have to celebrate Independence Day - focus on the day Christ set you free, not on the day the founding fathers turned their backs on their Christian responsibilities and rebelled against their king and fought and killed their way into "the blessings of liberty."

The US of America is a wolf in sheep's clothing... and it wants your love, respect, loyalty, money and consent... and if it cannot get it through deception, it will take what it can get by force. You have a choice, in my view, of serving God and putting Him first, or feigning fidelity to God, while serving money, power, greed, war, deception, and the will of ravenous men bent on dominating the affairs of the entire world... no matter the cost to our fellow Christians in other nations.

I say we can do better for ourselves and our loved ones by serving God, by standing up for His Kingdom, and by letting the dead bury the dead. Do not waste your life and the lives of your children "serving" in this nation's military, you're not serving God by joining the military, you're a pawn for the rich and powerful of the world. James 2:6-7 Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts? Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?

I am trying to free your mind from the pervading darkness that has clouded the minds and thinking of almost everyone, even godly men for the last 236 years. 1 Cor 7:23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men./ 1 Cor 6:20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.

If you are a Christian, you belong to God... and Jesus said, you cannot serve God and Mammon. Matt 6:24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." Sadly, the reality is that many American Christians are so deceived by the pervading darkness we live in, (love of Country) that they think they are serving God, when in reality they are serving Mammon... riches, profits, wealth... what I am talking about is this - serving Mammon is more than just you trying to get rich, it also has broader implications - like serving the purposes of those who personify Mammon.

Christianity was originally an anti-establishment undergound Messianic movement, first within Jewish society and later within the Roman Empire. With brave indifference to the pervading authorities, the Apostles preached Jesus Christ as Lord and king, and the kingdom of God as the goal of every disciple of Christ... and these things were considered heretical by the Jews and treason by the Romans.  Even so, the Christians of the first century endured the harsh lives they lived, looking forward to life in heaven and the kingdom of God. Likewise we also can look beyond the constructs of fallen man that we live in, and look forward to the day when our Lord Jesus descends from heaven and banishes all worldly rule and authority, and establishes His righteous dominion over the earth. We do not need to live as ignorant pawns being manipulated by our "elected leaders" and what they consider the vital national interests of America.

Follow God and Christ, not man, not Washington, not Lincoln and not the gang in Washington DC. They tell us we own them a debt of gratitude, they tell us we own the military our respect and devotion... but I say to you, compared to what we own God and Christ, we own them nothing at all.

1 John 2:15-17 "Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world - the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life - is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever."

~ Theophilus

If you disagree with my message Iron, please support your reasons with Scripture. Otherwise this is not much of a Christian debate forum. Also, my posts had nothing to do with the Mormon religion, so while I welcome your participation on my thread, I would prefer you keep the Mormon Church out of the lime light. I am not opposed to talking about Mormonism with you and the beefs many Mormons have with American Christians, it just seems like this is not the proper place for that kind of thing.

The Bible also shows Jesus grabbing a whip and clearing out the temple whenever it kept getting defiled.

Once does not make a whenever. What Jesus did was done to fulfill Scripture and show the anger of God toward the capitalistic corruption the Jews imposed on the Temple of God, which God intended to be a House of Prayer for all nations, but they had turned it into a den of thieves.  

Actually, Theo, a lot of the bad stuff that's gone down over the years has happened because people thought that they were doing God's will.

I will certainly grant you that, but all people really need to do to know the will of God is learn Scripture. If people would actually take what Jesus said to heart, instead of mixing it all up with their own ideas, the will of God becomes much easier to distinguish. What's so hard about - Thou shalt not kill, and, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men, and blessed are the peace makers?

I lived for decades as a Christian with uncertain beliefs about issues like war, the economy, lying politicians... etc. And that was because I listened to much to what other people were saying instead of what the Bible says. As a result I read Scripture with a tentative eye, instead of simply believing what it says. You may have noticed Iron, but I've changed my approach to Scripture recently... gradually over the last 10 years, but more rapidly over the past few years. These days I just believe what it says.

Do you have any idea how many others would have to disagree with you on that?

Yes, that is why I am out to reason from the Scriptures and try to persuade as many as possible.

...in part because the British government feared a repeat of the American Revolution if they didn't.

Did you know that the war of 1812 was fought partly because the USA wanted to annex Canada?

So you'd rather let millions of innocents die to salve your own conscience?

No, I would rather have us obey God than do what American leaders say for their own reasons. We can not go fighting everybody else's battles for them, sadly people have to do deal with the consequences of their actions. I believe that God will reward those who obey Him and punish those who do not follow His word. I do not believe there are times when you have to disobey God.

This nation in recent years has thrown many Christian populations to the wolves, not deliberately, but because of dealings with foreign States and American policies of subversion against unstable countries. What do you not understand about war? War is a tool of the devil designed to mock God and take as many souls to hell as possible. I would rather see America trying to stop wars, than doing our best to foment unrest and arm disgruntled populists' - see iron, I am against killing and war. I want other people to be against war and killing their fellow man too - sadly our Government disagrees.

As for quiting my job - Iron, I build passenger airplanes, I do not build war machines.

~ Theophilus

This may be taking the thread further off topic, but it has already strayed. 

Most Mormons are Americans, but not vice versa.  So Mormon history is American, but also not vice versa.  American history is not Mormon. It is incorrect to equate them.

I would also argue, however,  that the same relationship does not hold between Mormons and Christians.  Mormons are not a subset of Christians in the same way that they are a subset of Americans.  Mormons are not Christians and Christians are not Mormons.  Christianity and Mormonism are two related, though separate, religions.  This is because Mormons attribute fundamental divine authority to certain scriptural texts that Christians deem inventive forgeries.  In this regard Mormonism has a relationship to orthodox Christianity that is more similar to Islam's than to, say, the relationship to orthodox Christianity of heterodox Protestant sects like the JW's or Christian Scientists or Plymouth Brethren or Old Order Amish.  Like Christianity, both Mormonism and Islam place Jesus in an important position in their doctrine and cosmology; but in contrast to Christianity, both affirm the divine authority of a body of scripture that Christianity rejects.

(No, I am not trying to suggest that the Mormon religion or its followers are evil, despite the claim that someone else is currently making about Islam on another thread.  I'm only saying that its affirmation of different foundational scriptures makes it a separate and distinct religion.)

"Watch Your Head"

"Watch Your Head" is a comic strip chronicaling the misadventures of a mixed-race group of college students as they try to survive the world around them.

The current story arc (which started on 21 May) involves one of the characters going home for the summer, room mate in tow, only to find out that everything changed while he was away.

Specifically, his father, a minister, was voted out as minister. His father went and confessed that he occasionally had homosexual tendencies, and so rather than recommend him for counseling he was thrown out on the street.

Among the people who voted him out?

Another son, who lies on his taxes, drinks alcohol as early as 10 AM, fantasises about an actress despite his being married, and watches bootleg movies.

A woman who doesn't mind the prospect of people thinking "naughty" things about her daughter.

An elderly gentleman who would gladly loan his building out for a stripper party but nearly refused to let the father preach.

Even when the father does get a new congregation, among its members are a guy who prays that the Bible doesn't say anything against cockfighting.

Folks, how many people like this are in your congregations?

People that put on an outward show of piety but deep inside are black as pitch?

Work on getting your own fellows in order before you go around and start picking fights with other people. I for one would much rather spend my time teaching my fellows than schooling my opponents.