Jun 12, 2012 -- 4:32PM, weberhome02 wrote:

.

Jun 12, 2012 -- 3:32PM, Dickey wrote:

Anyone that says they have eternal life as if it were a fact are either a fool or a liar.

Christians such as myself who can testify, in all honesty and a good conscience, that they have eternal life, are neither fools nor liars. In reality, what they actually are is believers.

Really?  Well, unless you sit in the judgement seat of God, all you can claim is you believe you have eternal life.  The minute you cross that line to you KNOW you have eternal life, you are stretching it and that usually happens to compensate for some insecurity about if you have it or not.  NEWSFLASH, saying it with conviction, doesn't make it so.  If you don't realize that, then we have light years of difference.  I don't presume to speak for God, when you declare you have it, you DO speak for God.  I haven't the insecurities that require me to try to convince the world of my relationship with HIm.  So, no I won't make such a claim.  I admit I can't know for sure until I face Him. 

Jun 12, 2012 -- 4:32PM, weberhome02 wrote:

In the statements below, note the correlation between belief and eternal life.

  You'll see that you presume you believe when in fact you may not, yet.  You don't believe God is LORD apparently, as instead of you humbly serving Him, you have Him serving you.  That is not a cut down, it's an observation from your "SAVE ME" centric posts.

Also, I don't know what you think "believe" means, it does not equate to "PROCLAIM!" As you seem to demonstrate.

Jun 12, 2012 -- 4:32PM, weberhome02 wrote:

Also take particular note of the grammatical tense of the "have" verb. It's present tense rather than future; indicating that believers have eternal life right now-- no delay, and no waiting period.

†. John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has eternal life.

 IF you believe, you have eternal life.  How do you know if you believe?  Now, don't confuse belief with reasoned, or rationalize.  Tell you a story.  I jumped from airplanes on weekends.  It was fun.  But, I have to tell you, no matter how much you understood the Chute would open, when you got to the door, you reconsidered your packing, your sanity, and everything, right before you went out the door.  That is a demonstration of you reasoned, or rationalized it was ok.  If you truly believed it was ok, you wouldn't have paused.  How often do you stop and examine the ground before you to make sure it will be ground and behave like ground before you take the next step?  Never.  You just take the next step without a thought in the world.  THAT is believe.  The witnessing the packing of the chute, understanding the mechanics and engineering of a jump, and that you will probably be ok, is not believing you will be ok.  See the difference?

Now, if you BELIEVE, then you walk in the Spirit.  If you walk in the Spirit you don't give into temptations of the flesh.  If YOU like ME still give into temptations of the flesh, then you don't yet believe.

Jun 12, 2012 -- 4:32PM, weberhome02 wrote:

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my words, and believe in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already transferred from death into life.

However if you don't have love you don't know Him much less believe in Him, and you are not going upwards.  4:16.  So, if you believe, we can conclude you will have the love right.  If the love is right it will be like God himself loves matt 5:48.  And will be demonstrated in charitable acts in your life as a lifestyle, not a random occurance, matt 25 last parable.

Regardless, the word believe in that sentence has conditions, if you don't meet the conditions you aren't one who believes.  I don't care how you proclaim you believe, you don't, yet, if you miss the conditions there. If you feel a repeated need to say you believe, then we all know that you have some doubt, else you wouldn't be repeating it all the time, same as I don't examine every step on the ground before I take it. :|

Jun 12, 2012 -- 4:32PM, weberhome02 wrote:

†. John 6:47 . .Truly, truly, I say to you: he who believes has eternal life.

Doesn't say you believe, you can say you believe, and still not qualify for eternal life.

Jun 12, 2012 -- 4:32PM, weberhome02 wrote:

†. 1John 5:13 . .These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

and in this case, in 1 john you can believe in the name of the Son of God, but not yet be in fellowship with Him, see chapter 1.

Jun 12, 2012 -- 4:32PM, weberhome02 wrote:

The possession of eternal life is directly related to one's association with Christ.

Exactly, that's what I've said before, 1 john 3:6 if you still sin, you don't know Him and haven't met Him.  So..... that relationship is important. 

Jun 12, 2012 -- 4:32PM, weberhome02 wrote:

As a matter of fact; according to God's testimony-- as an expert witness in all matters pertaining to His own son --people who don't have eternal life, don't have His son. In other words: they are quite christless.

Jun 12, 2012 -- 4:32PM, weberhome02 wrote:

†. 1John 5:9-12 . .We accept human testimony, but God's testimony carries more weight because it's the testimony of God, which He has given about His son . . .This is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His son. He who has The Son has this life; he who does not have this life, does not have God's son.

Because someone has received eternal life, doesn't mean you have, which is all you can claim from this verse.  And who was the US JOhn was speaking of there, those who ARE In fellowship with God, or those who weren't.  That deliniation was made clear in chapter 1 that some were in fellowship and some weren't.

Jun 13, 2012 -- 5:16PM, smcisaac wrote:

Jun 12, 2012 -- 4:32PM, weberhome02 wrote:

.

Jun 12, 2012 -- 3:32PM, Dickey wrote:

Anyone that says they have eternal life as if it were a fact are either a fool or a liar.

Christians such as myself who can testify, in all honesty and a good conscience, that they have eternal life, are neither fools nor liars. In reality, what they actually are is believers.

Dickey raises an excellent distinction.  You can indeed testify, in all honesty and a good conscience, that you believe you have eternal life.  Just as you say, in reality you are neither a fool nor a liar, but a believer, to believe so.  Nevertheless, the fact that you firmly believe it to be true does not inherently render it true in any absolute sense.  Your own subjective belief is not the same as absolute, objective fact.  And, just as Dickey says, if you cannot distinguish subjective belief from objective fact, you may not be a deliberate liar but you are indeed fooling yourself.

That was entirely to politely put.

But, yeah, that's the point.  It's hard to face it for most.

I hit it doing the study on gal 5:1, where it reached into gal 5:16 and 1 john 3:6,9 etc... and I had to admit that, ...

if scripture is right then I am not...

walking in the Spirit

indwelled by the spirit,

in fellowship with God,

not knowing Him.

not born of Him, ....

YET.

Now it came down to, do I trust Him enough to get me there.
After I was able to admit what I'm not, things became a whole lot more real.

Jun 14, 2012 -- 4:05AM, Hatman wrote:

1John4:16 "God is love. He who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him." Can the reverse also be implied, e.g. that one who does NOT abide in love does NOT abide in God?

That is a logical conclusion.  It would also be in line with Paul in gal 5:6 and Christ's command in matt 5:48 which deals with love as well.   I can't find a way to make an argument biblically, vs all presumption, that you can not abide in love and still abide in Him, especially since GOD IS LOVE, right? 

Jun 14, 2012 -- 4:05AM, Hatman wrote:

If so, there are many posters on this thread who are in dire need some serious repentance...and apologies might also be a good start, methinks.

Well, in all fairness, love isn't always nice.  And the thought that LOVE will never slap a brother is just not in line with the Greek word we translate as Love.   

Jun 14, 2012 -- 4:05AM, Hatman wrote:

As to the questions concerning 1John3:6 and it's near-opposite(in re: "if we say we do not sin, we lie and deceive ourselves[or words to that effect])," i believe they can be reconciled rather simply by an understanding of the following passage: "He must increase; i must decrease." Christ calls for us to be One with Him, does He not? Even Paul seems to get this point when he teaches about Christ becoming the all-in-all, it seems to me. Warmest regards- Hatman

Ty for your post.  I have to agree, but if you would, I'd like you to expound a bit on what the increase/decrease part means to  you.  Can you decrease enough that you no longer sin, in your mind? 

Jun 14, 2012 -- 2:28PM, weberhome02 wrote:

.

Jun 13, 2012 -- 1:18PM, Dickey wrote:

I don't presume to speak for God

Well; I'll be dogged! You know, judging by the ex cathedric tone of the posting going on around here I was sure everybody on Beliefnet sincerely believed themselves speaking for God. Let me ask you arm-chair pontificaters something: If you haven't been speaking for God on Beliefnet, then for whom have you been speaking all this time?

Cliff
/

Why are you so threatened.  I'm sorry you feel threatened.  I've been speaking about God, and what is written about Him.  YOU are the one who claims to be able to judge other's souls and hearts....