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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 12:22AM #1
jesusfreakgal
Posts: 938
I am done with organized churches/ religion, what do you say? I am conflicted. I don't want to say anything to such a person that might get me labeled as being 'one of them' (basically a person who may have contributed to the person being 'done' with organized churches? religion), but I also know the bible tells us to not to 'givve up the meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing' (Hebrews 10:25). If they do not have regular fellowship with other believers, that is definitely not a good thing, and I'd want them to know that. But I'd make it clear that I althought I believe it is important to attend church, that there was nothing wrong with the fact that they did not, so long as they met regularly with other Christians.
JFG
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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 12:47PM #2
TemplarS
Posts: 6,778

Well, I understand that some people are turned off by organized religion.  I suppose there are many reasons for this.


Yet, I think organized or institutional Churches have a role to play. 


The problem in the absense of this is the lack of any sort of reality check on what is being followed as "Christianity."   If you believe that anyone at all can read and interpret scripture as they see fit, this may not be a problem, of course; but to me, you can't ignore the centuries of thinking that have gone before, which is institutionalized in Churches.   This is not to say what is considered standard belief (or range of beliefs, since there will always be a spectrum) cannot change; but to my mind this is best done in dialogue with others in the Christian community. 


From the start, Christianity has always been a communal religion.

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 3:28PM #3
dblad
Posts: 1,690

Apr 26, 2012 -- 12:22AM, jesusfreakgal wrote:

I am done with organized churches/ religion, what do you say? I am conflicted. I don't want to say anything to such a person that might get me labeled as being 'one of them' (basically a person who may have contributed to the person being 'done' with organized churches? religion), but I also know the bible tells us to not to 'givve up the meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing' (Hebrews 10:25). If they do not have regular fellowship with other believers, that is definitely not a good thing, and I'd want them to know that. But I'd make it clear that I althought I believe it is important to attend church, that there was nothing wrong with the fact that they did not, so long as they met regularly with other Christians.
JFG



When Hebrews 10:25 was written, there probably was just one Christian Church where just about everybody was of one accord, and though Paul preached for unity in the early Christian Church, it seems to have been in vain. Now everyone claims to be correct, the one true Church, etc. and we have some 35,000 different Christians denominations and many diverse beliefs and interpretations of scripture within the so-called Christian community. No wonder there is confusion, discord and frustration. Conflicted? Yeah!



 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 26, 2012 - 10:14PM #4
Theo
Posts: 4,687

I am done with organized churches/ religion, what do you say? I am conflicted. I don't want to say anything to such a person that might get me labeled as being 'one of them' (basically a person who may have contributed to the person being 'done' with organized churches? religion), but I also know the bible tells us to not to 'givve up the meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing' (Hebrews 10:25). If they do not have regular fellowship with other believers, that is definitely not a good thing, and I'd want them to know that. But I'd make it clear that I althought I believe it is important to attend church, that there was nothing wrong with the fact that they did not, so long as they met regularly with other Christians. 



Christianity was never designed to be a solitary religion... even monastic orders are organized Christian communities, be they in the city or country. But that having been said, there is nothing wrong with Christians going off on their own for a while, as long as its to be alone with God, and not just to get away from God. Frankly, I think most of the people I have heard that line of yours from, were fed up with other Christians, and wanted time to reconsider their religion and their walk with God. My own daughter is currently in this stage or reflection, having been hurt by her Christian friends when she decided she had to divorce her husband.


I think for many people, organized religion, (i.e. going to a church) does not help them find God, and instead they find a bunch of people with all their problems and failings, and after awhile it can get overwhelming. I think in such cases, the problem is not organized religion, as much as it is a crummy church, or an insincere seeker, who gave the God thing a try, but found that it didn't work for them.


What to say to someone who turns their back to the Church??? Tell them that if they find something that works better to let you know. The Church was established by Christ and the Apostles for the worship of God and the edification of the saints. But if they find a better way to worship God, and really come to know Him, and build yourself up in the Christian faith - don't keep it to yourself.


Those who leave the Church for whatever reason, should be allowed to leave peacefully... just keep in touch with them... especially if they do not turn their backs on Christ. There is a fine line between letting someone know that you are concerned for them and love them... and laying some guilt trip on them for living in sin and turning their backs on Christ.


Personally, I have found that most Christians leave the Church because they have sin in their lives and don't want to give it up. And suddenly the world looks like a wonderful place where they can live and do their own thing, with no one to judge them. And so they say... I am done with organized religion. And they are... until they find that the world is full of picky judgmental people too. The big difference between the world and the Church, is that you can't find God in the world... you have to come to where God dwells - among the praises of His people.


~ Theophilus 

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 27, 2012 - 9:29PM #5
Beautiful_Dreamer
Posts: 5,154

First of all...if someone thinks you are 'one of them', chances are that they won't be comfortable saying something like that in front of you. They probably already consider you 'safe', so they will be more open to what you have to say.


My first question to someone who says that to me would be, "Why?" The answer to that question is what the rest of my response hinges on. I've known people who have been deeply hurt by organized religion and the first thing I would try to do is to tell and show them that 'not all Christians are Like That'. Discuss Christianity is full of them. Of course, 'showing' is probably the more important part of that equation.


When it comes to my own family-my brother, for instance, told me that his mom (not mine) sent him to a Christian school when he was growing up because she was afraid that he was gay and thought that might 'help'...well, I've found myself at a loss for words. We didn't grow up together (I just met him three years ago, in fact), so I don't know what it was like for him and would be nervous about saying something wrong.


If the person was what towanda called an 'evangelical atheist' who argued religious people down whenever they found them, I'd try not to indulge them at all. And yes, I've known people like this. One is an ex, thus the word 'ex'. Some can be found on Discuss Christianity also.


More where that came from...

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 28, 2012 - 10:22PM #6
jesusfreakgal
Posts: 938

It depends. If the person either gave the impression, or actually said that they were done with organized church/ religion (mainly if they if they considered themself to be a Christian\0, I'd want to point out that if this is what they consider ALL Christians to be, that they must consider themself the same, since they consider themself a Christian. I probably would not actually say that though. I would want to point out that not all Christians or churches are like this, even if that has been their main experience with Christians and churches, and that it might be nice to try church again. I'd also let them know that my main concern for them wasn't the fact that they did not have a church to attend, but rather that they had regular fellowship with other Christian, that Christians were not meant to go it alone. I really don't have much of a problem with someone not attending church, so long as they had regular fellowship with other Christians. No matter how important attending church is, it is the fellowship with the other Christians (rather then simply the act of attending/ being in church) is more important. Having people to e ncourage us, pray for us, help/ guide us along when we don't understand something is important. If we don't have that, we can be lost as a Christian, IMO.


JFG

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2 years ago  ::  Apr 30, 2012 - 12:41AM #7
Beautiful_Dreamer
Posts: 5,154

For everyone-


Is your response/angle different depending on why the person is turned off by organized religion? If they don't believe in God at all (like my brother) vs. if they had a bad experience (like quite a few on Discuss Christianity)? I know this seems like a silly question, but I think it might make a difference in which direction the discussion takes.

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2 years ago  ::  May 02, 2012 - 2:16AM #8
Hatman
Posts: 9,634
JFG-
Christ said the following words:

"If they say unto you, 'Lo, here!' or 'Lo, there!', do not go; for the Kingdom of Heaven is within."(though some have it "in your midst").

He also said, "Wherever two or more of you are gathered together in My Name, there am I, in your midst."
THIS is "church," meaning "Assembly of the called out," the emphasized word being of primary importance.

Today, the vast majority of "organized churches" have also sought and ignorantly accepted 501c3 status, too, and thereby become enmeshed with the Beast, as symbolized in the Revelation to John, i.e. the "scarlet woman, bedecked with gold and jewels, drunk with the blood of prophets and martyrs, riding the back of the Beast," the scarlet woman being representation of the liars-church which allies itself with the Beast, the symbolic representative of the governments "of the world."

Here's how i see it:

The USG considers all 501c3 orgs to be "charitable corporations," and subjects them to all the rules and regulations governing other corporations.  Again in US law, corporations are considered to be "fictional persons," and fictional persons have no souls, do they?  Can a man serve 2 masters?  Have 501c3's unwittingly subjected themselves to another Head than that of Christ alone?

Therefore your decision to leave "organized churches" may be the Spirit telling you to flee the 501c3 apostates before you share in the plagues about to befall the Beast and it's allies.

But for more information about 501c3's and the deception involved in deceiving "churches" into having such a status, vist www.hushmoney.org---then, iirc, scroll down to the bottom to find the links explaining what the 501c3 is all about, and how it is COMPLETELY unnecessary for ANY church to get that status in order to have donations to it be considered "tax free," as US Title 17(iirc) specifically exempts churches from such statutes...but perhaps a relevant citation from the page in question may prompt you to read further:

    "I am not the only IRS employee who’s wondered why churches go to the government and seek permission to be exempted from a tax they didn’t owe to begin with, and to seek a tax deductible status that they’ve always had anyway. Many of us have marveled at how church leaders want to be regulated and controlled by an agency of government that most Americans have prayed would just get out of their lives. Churches are in an amazingly unique position, but they don’t seem to know or appreciate the implications of what it would mean to be free of government control."

-from the Forward of In Caesar's Grip, by Peter Kershaw

All that said, it is still an excellent thing to do to meet together with fellow-believers often; it simply isn't necessary that anyone accept the imprimatur of a denominational name(Episcopalians, Baptists, Lutherans, Unitarians, etc.) in order to do so...ESPECIALLY when you discover the truth about their 501c3 status.

With goodwill to all the People(except lying, deceiving, criminal Oathbreakers)-

Hatman
"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2012 - 6:10PM #9
Dickey
Posts: 112




Apr 26, 2012 -- 12:22AM, jesusfreakgal wrote:

But I'd make it clear that I althought I believe it is important to attend church, that there was nothing wrong with the fact that they did not, so long as they met regularly with other Christians.
JFG




I won't say I"m Xian because of the anti Christ church that presents itself under that name today.  I'm not being a whacko extremeist here, I have reasons for why I said it, but they would be a bad tangent here.  Let's just say, the fruit of the church today is arrogance, dissension, factions, and according to Paul, that is of the flesh, not Spirit. 



The church today has become more about the philosophy and what you know, than how to live your life.  



BUT, the conflict is this.... Paul describes the Church, and James in Jerusalem pretty much was the first example of, and Clement at the time of John writing his epistles confirmed, that the CHURCH is the leader ship organized by God to lead the people in the Church to works of service, through which, you gain maturity even to the extent that Christ was spiritually mature. 



Now, if they are the means Christ teaches us, which is exactly what it says, I need to find where those are, that are actually getting the message from God.  And that' snot going to be like some fundamental S B C member screaming I HAVE THE SPIRIT FOLLOW ME, because anyone, even a fool, can make that claim. 



So, we are definitely designed by Christ to be under a hiearchy, but finding the right hiearchy is my dilemma.  BTW the vss are Eph 4:12ish - 17ish.  And it does say, to be as abosolutely Spiritually matre as Jesus the Christ was.  Most folks, and Churches will say that's impossible, OR reword it and change it's statement, to mean something they can understand. 




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