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Switch to Forum Live View Hebrew University Scholar Argues Third Day Resurrection a Jewish Concept that Predates Jesus
3 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 4:34PM #1
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,676


The Scripture / The Old Testament, fortold of a Messiah who would live, die, resurrect, and Christ Jesus fulfilled The Old Testament Scriptures!




INTRIGUING DEAD SEA SCROLL SAYS MESSIAH TO COME, DIE, AND RISE ON THIRD DAY

Hebrew University scholar argues third day resurrection a Jewish concept that predates Jesus.



Joel C. Rosenberg


(Washington, D.C., April 17, 2012) -- A respected Israeli scholar and professor at Hebrew University is making an intriguing and compelling case that it is a distinctly Jewish notion to expect the Messiah to come, die as a "suffering servant" as an atonement for sins and the redemption of Israel, and then to rise from the dead on the third day. Based on his many years of research, and fairly recently analyzed archaeological evidence -- including a previously unstudied Dead Sea Scroll -- the scholar is also arguing that this notion of the Messiah rising on the third day is a pre-Christian concept that dates back to before the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem Ephratah. The case made by Dr. Israel Knohl has attracted significant attention, including a major article in the New York Times and several articles in Biblical Archaeology Review (all linked on the blog).

The Times story, "Ancient Tablet Ignites Debate on Messiah and Resurrection," begins: "A three-foot-tall tablet with 87 lines of Hebrew that scholars believe dates from the decades just before the birth of Jesus is causing a quiet stir in biblical and archaeological circles, especially because it may speak of a messiah who will rise from the dead after three days." The tablet has been named by scholars as "Gabriel's Revelation" because it suggests that the angel Gabriel was instructed by God to direct that the Messiah be raised from the dead on the third day.

Admittedly, this isn't news. The stone tablet was discovered about fifteen years ago and is owned by a Israeli-Swiss Jewish man by the name of David Jeselsohn (pictured) who didn't understand its significance when he purchased it. The Times article was published in 2008. Dr. Knohl then published a book about all this in 2009 entitled, Messiahs and Resurrection in "The Gabriel Revelation." That was a follow up to his previous book, The Messiah Before Jesus: The Suffering Servant of the Dead Sea Scrolls (first published in Hebrew in 2000 and then in English in 2002). In the book, Dr. Knohl explains the various Jewish theories about the Messiah, including the idea of a "Messiah son of David" who will be a reigning king on the earth like King David was, and a "Messiah son of Joseph" who will be rejected by his brothers, mistreated, left for dead but will eventually reappear and save not only the nation of Israel but the world like Joseph did in the book of Genesis.

Why do I bring it up now? Because it absolutely fascinates me. I was intrigued with the various stories when they were first published. But in recent days -- in part because of Passover and Easter -- I began sharing all this with our four sons. Together, we've been studying the book of I Corinthians together each morning before school. Last week we just happened to begin studying I Corinithians 15:1-5, which reads, "Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you,unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas [Peter], then to the twelve [apostles]. After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time…." We studied how the Hebrew Scriptures speak of the Messiah suffering and dying to atone for our sins and how we see these ancient prophecies described in Isaiah 53, in Daniel 9:26 (which says the Messiah will come for atonement, then be "cut off," and afterwards Jerusalem and the Temple will be destroyed), and Psalm 22. We also looked carefully at the Gospel accounts to show how Jesus remarkably fulfilled each of these prophecies.

This morning over breakfast, I read excerpts of the Times story to Lynn and the boys, and we discussed why many Jewish people think the idea of a suffering Messiah who dies and rises again on the third day is a Christian idea, when really it is a Jewish idea, as explained with such intriguing research by Dr. Knohl. Unfortunately, I've never read Dr. Knohl's books, only excerpts, but since today is my birthday we've ordered both and are eager to read them when they arrive. I'd encourage you to read them, too, or at least to read the articles that I've linked here on the blog.

Even more importantly I would ask you to consider today: What if the Gospel story is true? What if Jesus not only died for our sins but was buried and raised from the dead on the third day, according to the ancient prophecies? Why should that matter? How should you respond? May the Lord bless you as your process these critical questions.

Moderated by Merope on Apr 19, 2012 - 02:15AM
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 5:53PM #2
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 17, 2012 -- 4:34PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


iama:  The Scripture/The Old Testament, fortold of a Messiah who would live, die, resurrect, and Christ Jesus fulfilled The Old Testament Scriptures!




Wrong. The tablet in question is not part of the Hebrew Bible, and its contents are wholly contrary to mainstream Judaism. It merely shows that the idea of a resurrected Messiah arose among some heretical Jews in time for the Gospels to incorporate it.

Moderated by Merope on Apr 19, 2012 - 02:13AM
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 6:10PM #3
G.flower
Posts: 3,598

That is a complete rip off of the myth and Roman celebration of Cybele and Attis. The Romans were used to the celebration, wanted to keep it and just changed the names of the gods in question, - even kept the dates the same.


ancienthistory.about.com/cs/nemythology/...

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 6:20PM #4
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,786


Apr 17, 2012 -- 4:34PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


iama:  The Scripture/The Old Testament, fortold of a Messiah who would live, die, resurrect, and Christ Jesus fulfilled The Old Testament Scriptures!


.


There is absolutely nothing about a Jewish messiah dying and being resurrected in the Tanakh. The Jewish messiah was a mere mortal man, not a demi god human hybrid. Jesus fulfilled none of the Things the Jewish messiah was supposed to.



Your Jesus Christ has nothing to do with Judaism at all.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 6:29PM #5
G.flower
Posts: 3,598

It is so odd to me how people get all wrapped up in "proving" something like this. If they knew their gods, they wouldn't have to prove it, they would believe it and have a relationship with their gods and what else is there to need?

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 7:15PM #6
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,786

Apr 17, 2012 -- 6:29PM, G.flower wrote:


It is so odd to me how people get all wrapped up in "proving" something like this. If they knew their gods, they wouldn't have to prove it, they would believe it and have a relationship with their gods and what else is there to need?




Very true. I myself don't have to prove a darn thing.


It is like,  unless they (generic they)  convince everyone else the story is true, they fear they may stop believing it themselves.

A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 17, 2012 - 10:43PM #7
Ken
Posts: 33,859

Apr 17, 2012 -- 6:20PM, mainecaptain wrote:



Apr 17, 2012 -- 4:34PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


iama:  The Scripture/The Old Testament, fortold of a Messiah who would live, die, resurrect, and Christ Jesus fulfilled The Old Testament Scriptures!


.


There is absolutely nothing about a Jewish messiah dying and being resurrected in the Tanakh. The Jewish messiah was a mere mortal man, not a demi god human hybrid. Jesus fulfilled none of the Things the Jewish messiah was supposed to.



Your Jesus Christ has nothing to do with Judaism at all.



Right. I think Christianity should be required by law to remove all references to Judaism.

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3 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 4:09AM #8
Namchuck
Posts: 11,699

Apr 17, 2012 -- 4:34PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


The Scripture / The Old Testament, fortold of a Messiah who would live, die, resurrect, and Christ Jesus fulfilled The Old Testament Scriptures!




INTRIGUING DEAD SEA SCROLL SAYS MESSIAH TO COME, DIE, AND RISE ON THIRD DAY

Hebrew University scholar argues third day resurrection a Jewish concept that predates Jesus.



Joel C. Rosenberg


(Washington, D.C., April 17, 2012) -- A respected Israeli scholar and professor at Hebrew University is making an intriguing and compelling case that it is a distinctly Jewish notion to expect the Messiah to come, die as a "suffering servant" as an atonement for sins and the redemption of Israel, and then to rise from the dead on the third day. Based on his many years of research, and fairly recently analyzed archaeological evidence -- including a previously unstudied Dead Sea Scroll -- the scholar is also arguing that this notion of the Messiah rising on the third day is a pre-Christian concept that dates back to before the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem Ephratah. The case made by Dr. Israel Knohl has attracted significant attention, including a major article in the New York Times and several articles in Biblical Archaeology Review (all linked on the blog).

The Times story, "Ancient Tablet Ignites Debate on Messiah and Resurrection," begins: "A three-foot-tall tablet with 87 lines of Hebrew that scholars believe dates from the decades just before the birth of Jesus is causing a quiet stir in biblical and archaeological circles, especially because it may speak of a messiah who will rise from the dead after three days." The tablet has been named by scholars as "Gabriel's Revelation" because it suggests that the angel Gabriel was instructed by God to direct that the Messiah be raised from the dead on the third day.

Admittedly, this isn't news. The stone tablet was discovered about fifteen years ago and is owned by a Israeli-Swiss Jewish man by the name of David Jeselsohn (pictured) who didn't understand its significance when he purchased it. The Times article was published in 2008. Dr. Knohl then published a book about all this in 2009 entitled, Messiahs and Resurrection in "The Gabriel Revelation." That was a follow up to his previous book, The Messiah Before Jesus: The Suffering Servant of the Dead Sea Scrolls (first published in Hebrew in 2000 and then in English in 2002). In the book, Dr. Knohl explains the various Jewish theories about the Messiah, including the idea of a "Messiah son of David" who will be a reigning king on the earth like King David was, and a "Messiah son of Joseph" who will be rejected by his brothers, mistreated, left for dead but will eventually reappear and save not only the nation of Israel but the world like Joseph did in the book of Genesis.

Why do I bring it up now? Because it absolutely fascinates me. I was intrigued with the various stories when they were first published. But in recent days -- in part because of Passover and Easter -- I began sharing all this with our four sons. Together, we've been studying the book of I Corinthians together each morning before school. Last week we just happened to begin studying I Corinithians 15:1-5, which reads, "Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you,unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas [Peter], then to the twelve [apostles]. After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time…." We studied how the Hebrew Scriptures speak of the Messiah suffering and dying to atone for our sins and how we see these ancient prophecies described in Isaiah 53, in Daniel 9:26 (which says the Messiah will come for atonement, then be "cut off," and afterwards Jerusalem and the Temple will be destroyed), and Psalm 22. We also looked carefully at the Gospel accounts to show how Jesus remarkably fulfilled each of these prophecies.

This morning over breakfast, I read excerpts of the Times story to Lynn and the boys, and we discussed why many Jewish people think the idea of a suffering Messiah who dies and rises again on the third day is a Christian idea, when really it is a Jewish idea, as explained with such intriguing research by Dr. Knohl. Unfortunately, I've never read Dr. Knohl's books, only excerpts, but since today is my birthday we've ordered both and are eager to read them when they arrive. I'd encourage you to read them, too, or at least to read the articles that I've linked here on the blog.

Even more importantly I would ask you to consider today: What if the Gospel story is true? What if Jesus not only died for our sins but was buried and raised from the dead on the third day, according to the ancient prophecies? Why should that matter? How should you respond? May the Lord bless you as your process these critical questions.


The myth of the dying and rising god is one of the more common ancient Middle Eastern myths with Christianity simply being another version of it.


One only has to study the theme in Egyption mythology - Horus/Osiris - to recognize that Christian mythology is composed of many liberal borrowings. There's nothing original in it at all.


Perhaps you should ask yourself, iama, what if one of the older versions of the myth is true?


You'll be safe, though, so long as you keep your head buried in the suffocating sands of the Bible.

Moderated by Merope on Apr 19, 2012 - 02:16AM
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 18, 2012 - 12:48PM #9
mainecaptain
Posts: 21,786
The funny thing is "Iama" is following the stories of older Pagan stories.
As Gilly and Nam pointed out.
If I recall there are quite a few stories of Dying and resurrected gods.
Vegetation gods tend to have such stories.

The silly part is IMO is that Christianity latched on to Judaism to support their ideas,
when those ideas fit better into other faiths.
But the worst part is the desire of Christianity to usurp the older faith system. And change it,
Which is disrespectful, insulting and unnecessary.
A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider god-fearing and pious. On the other hand, they do less easily move against him, believing that he has the gods on his side. Aristotle
Never discourage anyone...who continually makes progress, no matter how slow. Plato..
"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives" Jackie Robinson
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3 years ago  ::  Apr 19, 2012 - 2:19AM #10
Merope
Posts: 10,206

This thread was moved from Apocalypse and End Times.

Merope | Beliefnet Community Manager
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