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6 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2012 - 3:20AM #41
Dostojevsky
Posts: 9,063

Sherri wrote:


"I think it can only occur when a person who is unsaved is convicted of their sin and shown clearly who Jesus is by the Holy Spirit, and they reject Jesus. They are persons who never have salvation. Blasphemy has always been a difficult concept for me to grasp, but I just found myself thinking maybe I am making it altogether too complicated. If a person persists in rejecting Jesus, they obviously never will reach a point they will repent from their sins, and they will never be saved and forgiven for their sins. Thus, they committed the unforgiveable sin of Blasphemy."


Jesus also said, 'I don't judge you, the Words that I speak they will judge; my Words are Spirit and they are Life'.


Many people pose arguments about Jesus who is etc. The argument is turned around to look into ourselves and ask, why do I reject His words, what did He say that I do not like.


Blasphemy abounds, it certainly does no harm to God,  but the question to be asked is why does a person find a need to do this. Jesus also said you must repent. Perhaps we are too proud or too afraid to look into ourselves and face our demons. Or perhaps we are busy building a tower into heaven to be equal with God.

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6 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2012 - 10:07AM #42
Adelphe
Posts: 28,765

Jan 9, 2012 -- 2:59PM, Webers_Home wrote:


...People who insist that the Lord's sheep can extract themselves from God's hand are actually casting a vote of no-confidence in the Lord's competence as a good shepherd. A sheep that can't trust its shepherd to protect it from predators and/or from its own stupidity, is an insecure sheep that has utterly failed to rely upon Jesus' testimony as an expert witness at John 10:27-29; ergo: they have no right whatoever to apply any part of Psalm 23 to themselves.


Cliff
/




Nicely said.


Evidence of blaspheming the Holy Spirit right there, I would add (which can only be done if He isn't present.)

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2012 - 10:09AM #43
Adelphe
Posts: 28,765

Jan 9, 2012 -- 5:27PM, 57 wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 3:16PM, lope wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 2:32PM, 57 wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 2:19PM, lope wrote:



It would not be part of the no one else.  It is only part of the no one if you don't believe God allows us to be able to love or not love and makes us do what ever God wants.  I don't believe in a God that imprisons us --forces us to stay with Him.  Our value to God is in our willing ness to be His child.  Otherwise we have no value to Him.




It would help your case if you some scripture to back up your opinion.   But as I said, the bible says no one, you included. 


The only reason why you would want to leave God and His great salvation would be if you have been deceived.  The one that would have decieved you then would have snatched you out of Gods hand...which the bible tells us is impossible. 





But the bible does not tell us it is impossible for the righteous to turn to wickedness.  In fact it says it is possible.  Ezekiel 18.




Every time you sin you turn to wickedness. 


In other words...according to your theology...you've already lost yoursalvation.




Never had it, actually.


(And why any self-proclaimed Christian would quote the OT on this matter without tempering it with the New Covenant is entirely beyond me.)

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2012 - 11:39AM #44
lope
Posts: 11,796

Jan 9, 2012 -- 8:53PM, davelaw40 wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 2:09PM, lope wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 2:01PM, 57 wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 4:48AM, koolpoi wrote:


Jan 8, 2012 -- 4:23PM, 57 wrote:



John 10:27-30 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."

How is it possible to lose ones salvation?



From a Christian perspective,wouldn't converting to another faith do that?




How? Then they would have been snatched out of Gods hand. So based on that i would have to say converting to another faith would not be grounds for "losing one's salvation".


Then again if they did convert...they might have been saved in the first place. 





Being snatched out of God's hand indicates someone else involved who takes us aways from being a child of God.  This is not the same as leaving on our own.  We can separate ourselves from God.  But no one else can separate us from God.




strongly disagree


 Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


no man includes ones self


2Ti 2:13 Although we become faithless, yet He remains faithful: he cannot deny himself.





When it comes to turning to wickedness, we are able to do that.  God holds us by love not by force.  He allows us to leave if we wish.  God's army is all volunteers--no draftees.

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6 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2012 - 11:43AM #45
lope
Posts: 11,796

Jan 10, 2012 -- 10:09AM, Adelphe wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 5:27PM, 57 wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 3:16PM, lope wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 2:32PM, 57 wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 2:19PM, lope wrote:



It would not be part of the no one else.  It is only part of the no one if you don't believe God allows us to be able to love or not love and makes us do what ever God wants.  I don't believe in a God that imprisons us --forces us to stay with Him.  Our value to God is in our willing ness to be His child.  Otherwise we have no value to Him.




It would help your case if you some scripture to back up your opinion.   But as I said, the bible says no one, you included. 


The only reason why you would want to leave God and His great salvation would be if you have been deceived.  The one that would have decieved you then would have snatched you out of Gods hand...which the bible tells us is impossible. 





But the bible does not tell us it is impossible for the righteous to turn to wickedness.  In fact it says it is possible.  Ezekiel 18.




Every time you sin you turn to wickedness. 


In other words...according to your theology...you've already lost yoursalvation.




Never had it, actually.


(And why any self-proclaimed Christian would quote the OT on this matter without tempering it with the New Covenant is entirely beyond me.)





Most Christians believe there is some divine truth in the OT that is not done aways by the New Covenant.  I believe it has always been true and still is true that we kill our own soul with our own sin--that it does not die because of the sin of someone else.  Ezekiel 18  I also believe the wicked can turn from wickedness to righteousness and if they do they will live and not die.  Ezekiel 18.   I further believe that the righteous can turn to wickedness and if they do they will die and not live.  Ezekiel 18.

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6 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2012 - 11:46AM #46
lope
Posts: 11,796

Jan 9, 2012 -- 5:27PM, 57 wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 3:16PM, lope wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 2:32PM, 57 wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 2:19PM, lope wrote:



It would not be part of the no one else.  It is only part of the no one if you don't believe God allows us to be able to love or not love and makes us do what ever God wants.  I don't believe in a God that imprisons us --forces us to stay with Him.  Our value to God is in our willing ness to be His child.  Otherwise we have no value to Him.




It would help your case if you some scripture to back up your opinion.   But as I said, the bible says no one, you included. 


The only reason why you would want to leave God and His great salvation would be if you have been deceived.  The one that would have decieved you then would have snatched you out of Gods hand...which the bible tells us is impossible. 





But the bible does not tell us it is impossible for the righteous to turn to wickedness.  In fact it says it is possible.  Ezekiel 18.




Every time you sin you turn to wickedness. 


In other words...according to your theology...you've already lost yoursalvation.





No, not all sin is unto death.  First John Five

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6 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2012 - 11:58AM #47
57
Posts: 28,191

Jan 10, 2012 -- 11:43AM, lope wrote:


Jan 10, 2012 -- 10:09AM, Adelphe wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 5:27PM, 57 wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 3:16PM, lope wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 2:32PM, 57 wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 2:19PM, lope wrote:



It would not be part of the no one else.  It is only part of the no one if you don't believe God allows us to be able to love or not love and makes us do what ever God wants.  I don't believe in a God that imprisons us --forces us to stay with Him.  Our value to God is in our willing ness to be His child.  Otherwise we have no value to Him.




It would help your case if you some scripture to back up your opinion.   But as I said, the bible says no one, you included. 


The only reason why you would want to leave God and His great salvation would be if you have been deceived.  The one that would have decieved you then would have snatched you out of Gods hand...which the bible tells us is impossible. 





But the bible does not tell us it is impossible for the righteous to turn to wickedness.  In fact it says it is possible.  Ezekiel 18.




Every time you sin you turn to wickedness. 


In other words...according to your theology...you've already lost yoursalvation.




Never had it, actually.


(And why any self-proclaimed Christian would quote the OT on this matter without tempering it with the New Covenant is entirely beyond me.)





Most Christians believe there is some divine truth in the OT that is not done aways by the New Covenant.  I believe it has always been true and still is true that we kill our own soul with our own sin--that it does not die because of the sin of someone else.  Ezekiel 18  I also believe the wicked can turn from wickedness to righteousness and if they do they will live and not die.  Ezekiel 18.   I further believe that the righteous can turn to wickedness and if they do they will die and not live.  Ezekiel 18.




What is meant by living and dying in this instance?

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6 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2012 - 11:59AM #48
Adelphe
Posts: 28,765

Jan 10, 2012 -- 11:43AM, lope wrote:


Most Christians believe there is some divine truth in the OT that is not done aways by the New Covenant.  I believe it has always been true and still is true that we kill our own soul with our own sin--that it does not die because of the sin of someone else.  Ezekiel 18  I also believe the wicked can turn from wickedness to righteousness and if they do they will live and not die.  Ezekiel 18.   I further believe that the righteous can turn to wickedness and if they do they will die and not live.  Ezekiel 18.




Read the whole chapter.


Then the summary of Ezekiel 18:


"Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord GOD. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin. Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord GOD; so turn, and live.”


How are you going to do that?

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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6 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2012 - 12:03PM #49
57
Posts: 28,191

Jan 10, 2012 -- 11:46AM, lope wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 5:27PM, 57 wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 3:16PM, lope wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 2:32PM, 57 wrote:


Jan 9, 2012 -- 2:19PM, lope wrote:



It would not be part of the no one else.  It is only part of the no one if you don't believe God allows us to be able to love or not love and makes us do what ever God wants.  I don't believe in a God that imprisons us --forces us to stay with Him.  Our value to God is in our willing ness to be His child.  Otherwise we have no value to Him.




It would help your case if you some scripture to back up your opinion.   But as I said, the bible says no one, you included. 


The only reason why you would want to leave God and His great salvation would be if you have been deceived.  The one that would have decieved you then would have snatched you out of Gods hand...which the bible tells us is impossible. 





But the bible does not tell us it is impossible for the righteous to turn to wickedness.  In fact it says it is possible.  Ezekiel 18.




Every time you sin you turn to wickedness. 


In other words...according to your theology...you've already lost yoursalvation.





No, not all sin is unto death.  First John Five




believers can sin to the point that physical death is the judgement. 

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6 years ago  ::  Jan 10, 2012 - 12:05PM #50
lope
Posts: 11,796

Jan 10, 2012 -- 11:59AM, Adelphe wrote:


Jan 10, 2012 -- 11:43AM, lope wrote:


Most Christians believe there is some divine truth in the OT that is not done aways by the New Covenant.  I believe it has always been true and still is true that we kill our own soul with our own sin--that it does not die because of the sin of someone else.  Ezekiel 18  I also believe the wicked can turn from wickedness to righteousness and if they do they will live and not die.  Ezekiel 18.   I further believe that the righteous can turn to wickedness and if they do they will die and not live.  Ezekiel 18.




Read the whole chapter.


Then the summary of Ezekiel 18:


"Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord GOD. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin. Cast away from you all the transgressions that you have committed, and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord GOD; so turn, and live.”


How are you going to do that?





God is the one that recreates us spiritually.  That would be the second birth or being born again.  However God will not do that for the wicked, who have killed themselves spiritually, unless they turn from wickedness to righteousness.

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