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3 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2012 - 10:14AM #11
dio
Posts: 4,964

one is not saved when one persists in evil ways.

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2012 - 10:15AM #12
Webers_Home
Posts: 922

.

Jan 9, 2012 -- 4:48AM, koolpoi wrote:

How is it possible to lose ones salvation? From a Christian perspective, wouldn't converting to another faith do that?


Converting to Christianity is no guarantee of obtaining a safe passage to the other side.


†. Mtt 7:22-23 . . Many will say to me in that day: Lord! Master! have we not preached in your name? and in your name exorcised demons? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them: I never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity.


The Lord's statement doesn't target Atheists, nor Hindus, nor Buddhists, nor Muslims. No, it targets people attesting to have preached in "your name" and to have exorcised demons in "your name" and to have done many wonderful works in "your name". In other words: the Lord's statement targets people labeling themselves his followers— and not just your average rank and file pew warmers either, no, but rather, it targets the cream of the crop; the celebrities of the Christian world; renowned for their accomplishments, their piety, their perseverance, their love, and their dedication. For example: Christians the likes of Mother Teresa who prayed up a storm, published books, assisted in disaster relief, traveled the world as missionaries, spoke to crowds, won accolades, were canonized to sainthood, and operated hostels, clinics, and orphanages in impoverished cities.


Note: Ms. Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu is so well known that she serves as an excellent type of the kinds of Christians that Mtt 7:22-23 disowns.


Webster's defines a "type" as: qualities common to a number of individuals that distinguish them as an identifiable class. In other words: Teresa serves as a type of "the cream of the crop".


Other types I could name include Padre Pio, Jeanne Jugan, Jozef Damian de Veuster, archbishop Zygmunt Szczesny Felinski, Francisco Coll y Guitart, Rafael Arnaiz Baron, Father Arcangelo Tadini, Sister Caterina Volpicelli, theologian Bernardo Tolomei, Gertrude Caterina Comensoli, Carmelite monk Nuno de Santa Maria Alvares Pereira, Carlos Manuel Rodriguez, Billy Graham, Martin Luther King Jr, Luis Palau, and a host of Sunday school teachers, pastors, deacons and various church officers: both Catholic and Protestant. It is to many of those super duper Xtians that Christ will one day say "I never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity."


So then, what am I saying? I'm saying that it is far better to be one of the Lord's sheep than it is to be a Christian because none of his sheep will be lost; but large numbers of Christians will be; and should any of those workers of iniquity convert to another religion; they wouldn't be any the worse for it.


Cliff
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2012 - 10:39AM #13
MMarcoe
Posts: 16,511

Jan 9, 2012 -- 10:10AM, Iwantamotto wrote:


MMarcoe:  The worst that happens is that you go on a long detour, but eventually God draws you back.


I've discovered that "separation from God" is a little like a kid running away from home by hiding under the bed.  The kid is still in the house, whether he or she feels like it or not.





This is an excellent analogy. I would add to it by saying that separation is just a construct within your ego, mind, and body. But your soul is already saved.

There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth.

God is just a personification of reality, of pure objectivity.
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2012 - 10:40AM #14
MMarcoe
Posts: 16,511

Jan 8, 2012 -- 4:55PM, 57 wrote:


Jan 8, 2012 -- 4:48PM, MMarcoe wrote:


Jan 8, 2012 -- 4:23PM, 57 wrote:



John 10:27-30 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."

How is it possible to lose ones salvation?




It's not possible to lose one's salvation. The worst that happens is that you go on a long detour, but eventually God draws you back.




What is the long detour?





Identification with your ego, mind, and body, rather than with your soul (the "I am" that God presented to Moses).


 

There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth.

God is just a personification of reality, of pure objectivity.
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2012 - 11:25AM #15
Adelphe
Posts: 28,707

Jan 8, 2012 -- 4:23PM, 57 wrote:



John 10:27-30 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."

How is it possible to lose ones salvation?



According to God, it's not under the New Covenant:


“Now therefore thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, concerning this city of which you say, ‘It is given into the hand of the king of Babylon by sword, by famine, and by pestilence’: Behold, I will gather them from all the countries to which I drove them in my anger and my wrath and in great indignation. I will bring them back to this place, and I will make them dwell in safety. And they shall be my people, and I will be their God. I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear me forever, for their own good and the good of their children after them. I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me. I will rejoice in doing them good, and I will plant them in this land in faithfulness, with all my heart and all my soul." (Jer 32)

Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason, my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, for to go against conscience would be neither right nor safe.  Here I stand.  I can do no other.  God help me.  Amen.
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2012 - 11:35AM #16
lope
Posts: 11,660

Jan 9, 2012 -- 10:14AM, dio wrote:


one is not saved when one persists in evil ways.





Amen.  The wicked shall die and not live.

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2012 - 11:42AM #17
lope
Posts: 11,660

Jan 8, 2012 -- 4:23PM, 57 wrote:



John 10:27-30 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."

How is it possible to lose ones salvation?




By turning from rightousness to wickedness. 


Ezekiel 18:24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2012 - 11:58AM #18
Webers_Home
Posts: 922

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Jan 9, 2012 -- 11:35AM, lope wrote:

The wicked shall die and not live.


That is very true.


†. Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death


However, the wicked have a choice about the method by which they die. They can opt to die horribly in the reservoir of liquefied flame depicted at Rev 20:11-15, or they can die in safety by proxy participation in Christ's crucifixion.


†. Rom 6:3 . .Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?


†. Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him


†. Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ


†. Col 3:3 . . For you died when Christ died


I highly recommend dying via the proxy and that's because there is only one resurrection allotted per person. (Dan 12:2, John 5:29). The reservoir is identified as the second death, so then nobody is coming back from it since they will have used up their one allotted resurrection in order to stand trial at the Great White Throne.


Cliff
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2012 - 12:59PM #19
lope
Posts: 11,660

Jan 9, 2012 -- 11:58AM, Webers_Home wrote:


.

Jan 9, 2012 -- 11:35AM, lope wrote:

The wicked shall die and not live.


That is very true.


†. Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death


However, the wicked have a choice about the method by which they die. They can opt to die horribly in the reservoir of liquefied flame depicted at Rev 20:11-15, or they can die in safety by proxy participation in Christ's crucifixion.


†. Rom 6:3 . .Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?


†. Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him


†. Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ


†. Col 3:3 . . For you died when Christ died


I highly recommend dying via the proxy and that's because there is only one resurrection allotted per person. (Dan 12:2, John 5:29). The reservoir is identified as the second death, so then nobody is coming back from it since they will have used up their one allotted resurrection in order to stand trial at the Great White Throne.


Cliff
/





I think we do not have a choice about how we will die.  I believe the death that is the consequence of sin is automatic and our destiny is at that time one without hope of eternal life.  The only choice we have after that death is to turn to righteousness and if we do we will live and not die.  If we do not turn to righteousness before the end of our physical life span, I think our choices are over.

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2012 - 2:01PM #20
57
Posts: 23,122

Jan 9, 2012 -- 4:48AM, koolpoi wrote:


Jan 8, 2012 -- 4:23PM, 57 wrote:



John 10:27-30 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."

How is it possible to lose ones salvation?



From a Christian perspective,wouldn't converting to another faith do that?




How? Then they would have been snatched out of Gods hand. So based on that i would have to say converting to another faith would not be grounds for "losing one's salvation".


Then again if they did convert...they might have been saved in the first place. 

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