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3 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2012 - 4:23PM #1
57
Posts: 22,168


John 10:27-30 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."

How is it possible to lose ones salvation?
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2012 - 4:29PM #2
Iwantamotto
Posts: 8,073

Jan 8, 2012 -- 4:23PM, 57 wrote:


John 10:27-30 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."

How is it possible to lose ones salvation?



According to some people, noting in quotes like these that the Shepherd admits it's not His sheep, but the sheep are actually from the CEO of sheep, apparently will knock you onto the Naughty List.  :)


 


Trinitarian issues aside, though, one of the reasons I began to dislike the farmer metaphors is that, well, sheep are sheep.  You kill livestock, either for food or for sacrifices (at this time).  One wonders how the Shepherd can say He offers such things when we all know what happens to sheep.


It is kinda like saying Jesus gave your cell phone an eternal battery.  That's nice and all, but if you leave it in the car on a hot summer day, it'll still melt, no matter how awesome your power source was.


I think the obsession for eternal life is a problem for Christianity.  It demands that we ignore the reality that we are mortal.  Some people will do anything to avoid hearing the word "die".

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2012 - 4:41PM #3
57
Posts: 22,168

Jan 8, 2012 -- 4:29PM, Iwantamotto wrote:


Jan 8, 2012 -- 4:23PM, 57 wrote:


John 10:27-30 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."

How is it possible to lose ones salvation?



According to some people, noting in quotes like these that the Shepherd admits it's not His sheep, but the sheep are actually from the CEO of sheep, apparently will knock you onto the Naughty List.  :)


 


Trinitarian issues aside, though, one of the reasons I began to dislike the farmer metaphors is that, well, sheep are sheep.  You kill livestock, either for food or for sacrifices (at this time).  One wonders how the Shepherd can say He offers such things when we all know what happens to sheep.


It is kinda like saying Jesus gave your cell phone an eternal battery.  That's nice and all, but if you leave it in the car on a hot summer day, it'll still melt, no matter how awesome your power source was.


I think the obsession for eternal life is a problem for Christianity.  It demands that we ignore the reality that we are mortal.  Some people will do anything to avoid hearing the word "die".




But you didn't answer the question.  My guess is that you can't...so you complained about the "metaphors" .  

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2012 - 4:48PM #4
MMarcoe
Posts: 15,888

Jan 8, 2012 -- 4:23PM, 57 wrote:



John 10:27-30 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."

How is it possible to lose ones salvation?




It's not possible to lose one's salvation. The worst that happens is that you go on a long detour, but eventually God draws you back.

There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth.

God is just a personification of reality, of pure objectivity.
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2012 - 4:50PM #5
SecondSonOfDavid
Posts: 3,344

Jan 8, 2012 -- 4:23PM, 57 wrote:



John 10:27-30 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."

How is it possible to lose ones salvation?



To lose it, impossible.  The problem is when one believes they have it, but have embraced a lie instead.  I am no proper judge, but I have serious doubts as to whether, say, Torquemada was ever in receipt of Salvation, much less indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier.
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2012 - 4:55PM #6
57
Posts: 22,168

Jan 8, 2012 -- 4:48PM, MMarcoe wrote:


Jan 8, 2012 -- 4:23PM, 57 wrote:



John 10:27-30 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."

How is it possible to lose ones salvation?




It's not possible to lose one's salvation. The worst that happens is that you go on a long detour, but eventually God draws you back.




What is the long detour?

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2012 - 4:39AM #7
Dostojevsky
Posts: 7,201

Quote:


"To lose it, impossible. The problem is when one believes they have it, but have embraced a lie instead. I am no proper judge, but I have serious doubts as to whether, say, Torquemada was ever in receipt of Salvation, much less indwelt by the Holy Spirit."


You don't believe you have it, you know you have it.


Do you believe you are in love, or do you know you are in love?


Salvation is not of thinking, it is becoming spiritual and living a spiritual life.

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2012 - 4:48AM #8
koolpoi
Posts: 6,326

Jan 8, 2012 -- 4:23PM, 57 wrote:



John 10:27-30 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."

How is it possible to lose ones salvation?



From a Christian perspective,wouldn't converting to another faith do that?

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2012 - 10:02AM #9
Kwinters
Posts: 21,079

Jan 8, 2012 -- 4:23PM, 57 wrote:



John 10:27-30 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."

How is it possible to lose ones salvation?




According to the passages ascribed to Jesus?  Blaspheming the holy spirit.

Jesus had two dads, and he turned out alright.~ Andy Gussert

“Feminism has fought no wars. It has killed no opponents. It has set up no concentration camps, starved no enemies, practiced no cruelties. Its battles have been for education, for the vote, for better working conditions…for safety on the streets…for child care, for social welfare…for rape crisis centers, women’s refuges, reforms in the law.

If someone says, “Oh, I’m not a feminist,” I ask, “Why, what’s your problem?”

Dale Spender
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 09, 2012 - 10:10AM #10
Iwantamotto
Posts: 8,073

57:  But you didn't answer the question.  My guess is that you can't...so you complained about the "metaphors".


Actually, I kinda did.  I think your question assumes too much, like the idea it can happen.  I think the root cause of the question is the emotional need, nay, REQUIREMENT that you get out of anything icky and unpleasant, like death.  I think you don't like I can see past your "innocent" question.


MMarcoe:  The worst that happens is that you go on a long detour, but eventually God draws you back.


I've discovered that "separation from God" is a little like a kid running away from home by hiding under the bed.  The kid is still in the house, whether he or she feels like it or not.


57:  What is the long detour?


Remember how Dorothy Gale went on a big road trip through Oz, only to learn that all she had to do to return "home" was wake up?  Yeah, that.

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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