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3 years ago  ::  Oct 10, 2011 - 10:59AM #1
JoliverJOLLY
Posts: 440
The words of Jesus Christ. To quote from older scriptures "In the end it will be seen, that only god is rigthous"

True also that Jesus calls the father "Rightous one" Rightous one.

So what does this mean, if only God is good, and only God is rightous? Well it means no man is, nor prophet as jesus says himself, "why do you call me good? only god is good".

So if man cannot be good, what can he be?

Jesus calls us to be perfect as our heavenly father is perfect, God himself says be holy for I your God am Holy.

Thou I still ponder what it means to be holy, I do see that God calls us to be people of virtues, "truthful lips assist justice(futher its cause)" Honesty, to be just men and women to be fair, to keep a balenced scale.

The virtueous, love, are humble, are fair in their dealings, the circumsiced of heart, are pure of heart, which is a thing if the spirit- and not psyical.

So while no man or woman is Good or ever could be, and any goodness seen must have come from god, man can be of virtue, just men, adjusted to god and turned in his direction.

Just men seek justice. A scale of true balence. For peace rests on justice and justice on just laws, by wisdom are just laws written.

An interesting revelaton I had on the road, no man is Good only God is. Man inheriently imperfect can only find any perfection with the God who is perfection itself. At best man is to be of virtue.

Peace be with you all.

Love your God, Be fair with your fellowman and show him kindness, make thanksgiving your sacrifice. 

Yours faithfully

Joliver. 

 


 

 
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3 years ago  ::  Oct 10, 2011 - 7:06PM #2
Beautiful_Dreamer
Posts: 5,163

Very interesting. I agree, any 'good' humans do and have in them comes from God.


I've thought about what it means for a human to be good on a number of occasions, and the conclusion I've come to is this: Short of being able to earn our salvation and be 'good enough' for God, humans all have the capacity for good and capacity for evil. For most of us, it's a matter of degrees...which side of the scale has more weight. But even if someone tips the scale very strongly on the 'good' side, this is the most we as fallen humans can acheive...God alone is the only perfect example of what it is to be 'good' without any sort of 'taint'. I happen to be a trinitarian, so that would include all three members of the Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), but it can work for people who aren't as well. 


What do you think? Have I understood you correctly, because I don't always have much concentration going for me.


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 14, 2011 - 1:42PM #3
JoliverJOLLY
Posts: 440

Oct 10, 2011 -- 7:06PM, Beautiful_Dreamer wrote:


Very interesting. I agree, any 'good' humans do and have in them comes from God.


I've thought about what it means for a human to be good on a number of occasions, and the conclusion I've come to is this: Short of being able to earn our salvation and be 'good enough' for God, humans all have the capacity for good and capacity for evil. For most of us, it's a matter of degrees...which side of the scale has more weight. But even if someone tips the scale very strongly on the 'good' side, this is the most we as fallen humans can acheive...God alone is the only perfect example of what it is to be 'good' without any sort of 'taint'. I happen to be a trinitarian, so that would include all three members of the Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), but it can work for people who aren't as well.


What do you think? Have I understood you correctly, because I don't always have much concentration going for me.


 


 





 


I was at one time a trinitarian, Today I am more in line with the witness of Jehova, or the Muslims.


But yes God is Good- perfection itself, any goodness we exhibit, comes from the  god we live with and serve.


Today I feel that holy means pure, and maybe also it is what christ means when he asks us to be perfect, to be pure- to be holy, ofcourse that purity is spiritual- to be pure of heart.


and by making the heart pure(circumsized) so to does the outside of the cup(the outside of ourselves) become pure, become holy as God is holy. It says in older scriptures "put into the furness and come out gold" Gold is the purest metal or seen as the purest.


As for the trinity I except Jesus as Gods son, he himself proclaims it to be so, yet more over he is the prophet. 


Deut 18.18-19. 


John  5. 37. Numbers 12.6-8.


John 5.46


Which leads me to, ponder what it really means to be a Christian?


John 5.24 "Who ever listens to my words and believes in the one who sent me, has eturnal life"


John 17.3 "Eturnal life is this, to know you the only true god and Jesus Christ whom you(the only true god) have sent.  



John 12. 48-50 "..... I know his command means eturnal life.."


As for the holy spirit, the spirit of truth, the word- comes from god, issues from the father, but then wisdom also is shown as the holy spirit, Wisdom 7. 27 "in each generation she passes into holy souls, she makes friends of God and prophets", Wisdom 9.17 "and sent your holy spirit from above" yet Wisdom is a creation of God, proverbs 8.22 and the truth is said to come from her mouth also Proverbs 8.7.


So I am at odds with the official line the church takes. Still that aside all Christians are called by Christ yes by him- to have faith in the one true god we know as the father and listen to his(Christs) teaching; which Jesus himself declares John 12.50"What the father has told me is what I speak". 


For "from Yahweh alone come strength and victory"


For God is Spirit, his word is truth.


Peace be with you


Joliver.


 

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 14, 2011 - 3:01PM #4
JoliverJOLLY
Posts: 440

I have to add something to the last post I made, WE know that it is written that Wisdom makes friends of God and Prophets, that the truth is said to come from her mouth, and Jesus also says "Wisdom proves all her children right"


So wisdom as the holy spirit, who enters into the lives of men, teaches them the truth or proclaims the truth to them(your word is truth) as God speaks it.


With Jesus, as he says "I have told them what I have learnt from my father" which links to "I will put my words into his mouth" Deut 18.18, and Jesus declares himself "It was me moses was writting about"


With the scripture of Numbers 9. it is written "not so with my servant moses, I speak to him plainly face to face, he knows my form" And the Prophet is said as is written to be like Moses, I will raise up a prophet like yourself, like moses" A prophet that will be spoken to plainly and face to face.


How does god speak? With the word.


So the words that Christ speaks are from God, yet Christ is not the word, the word comes from the father to the son, and the son speaks them.


There is my issue with John, John says Jesus is the word or rather says the light is the true word. Yet the light is a creation created on the first day, "let there be light". So if the light is the word how could the word be used to make it? The word is first the light secound.


John as Jesus says does not know the whole truth, for the whole truth would be too much for him, so John knows as he wrote the begining of the text that he did not know everything, yet proclaims the light the word, and the word God. Yet we know also that the word is the servant of God, God sends the word out it performs it's task and then returns.


The word is truth and a servant of the one true god, Wisdom is the holy spirit, Jesus is the light and son of God, The light and Wisdom are creations, Jesus says "before the foundations of the world I am" But other things were made before the earth foundations were set, Wisdom, light, the heavens also.


So I am left to see that there is only one true God, his son and the holy spirit creations of his as is everything else, and his word a servant that performs the tasks God sends the word to do, The word is truth, and the one true god is the God of truth, as he is God of all. And the truth as Jesus says "Issues from (God) the father" So while the word was with god and could be considered God, the light is something else, and I am not sure that the word is god, is an acurate statement.


That is my understanding today, clearer yet there are areas to consider.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 16, 2011 - 11:35AM #5
JoliverJOLLY
Posts: 440

All of the ponderings aside, as I said before what does it mean to be a Christian?


Well it's this,


Whoever listens to the words of Jesus Christ, keeps them faithfully, and believes in the one who sent him, has eturnal life; without being brought to judgement.


That is essencially what it is to be a christian.


Breaking the statement down:-


First it is Whoever: WHOEVER LISTENS, in that you can see that Jesus came for all peoples.


Then secound: keeps those commands and words faithfully, to say actually compiles honestly with that teaching. Remember as Jesus says 'I have told you what the father has told me to tell you'. As is said of the prophet "I will put my words into his mouth"


Third: Believes in the one who set him(Jesus) Believes in the one who sent Jesus, So believes in the one true God, who Jesus calls 'the holy father', 'rightous one', 'The vine dresser'.


So we are to believe in the one true god, who Jesus asks you to pray to and worship in spirit and in truth- the father. Then follow Jesus' teaching with regards to how we live- sincerly. 


For those that do that Jesus says they will pass from death to life without being judged. Then there are the others that follow Christ who keep some but not all of his teaching, and as Jesus says "the sinners place is not secure", so these will be judged on how they have lived along with the rest of mankind.


Peace to you all


Jesus' last and new commandment was "To love one another" "and by that Love will people know that you are my deciples"


Yours faithfully


Joliver


 


 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 08, 2012 - 6:04AM #6
ebeneezer169
Posts: 31

I think everyone should watch this short film


 In the begining, there was the word a herbrew understanding:-


www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNr50riW6uM&list...


 


 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 08, 2012 - 6:27AM #7
ebeneezer169
Posts: 31

John 17.19 For them I consecrate myself, so that they too may be consecrated.


if we read a little before, what does Jesus Consecrate himself with or in?

 

John 17.

 

14 I have given them Your word(teaching); and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am(your teaching) not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word(teaching) is truth.

 

So Jesus Consecrates himself in truth. What does that mean?

 

For the hebrews it refers to-  full hands, to be filled with, to be seperated by, to be set apart

 


 

So it could be seen that Jesus says I fill myself with truth, so that they are filled with truth with me.
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