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Switch to Forum Live View What's your relationship with God like? Is it like David's, Abraham's or Moses'?
7 years ago  ::  Feb 06, 2011 - 12:11PM #1
Posts: 140
People have different relationships with God.  Some see Him as a distant ruler, some see Him as Lord and Sovereign, and some transcend the sovereign to be His friend like Abraham did.  We fall into the transcending the sovereign category.  You?
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2011 - 11:35AM #2
Posts: 9,234

I like the "ever present Reality that is Sentient and wants to help you out"-type of concept.  I wouldn't so much call it friendship as "therapeutic".

Knock and the door shall open.  It's not my fault if you don't like the decor.
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 17, 2011 - 11:56AM #3
Posts: 140

As Christian and pastoral counselors, Pastor G and I well know the difference between the relational and the theraputic.  God is relational, and we can choose what kind of relationship to have with Him.  That's the point of the post, and we have a journal post on this subject as well.

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7 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2011 - 6:52PM #4
Posts: 282

I definitely see my faith as being in the mold of the patriarchs and matriarchs who walked with, wrestled with, and argued with God. If I may quote from a sermon I gave at my church on Proper 14 (Sunday Closest to August 10), Year C (the readings were Isaiah 1:1, 10-20Psalm 50:1-8, 23-24Hebrews 11:1-3, 8-16, and Luke 12:32-40):

In our epistle reading, the author of Hebrews talks about the great faith of Abraham and Sarah and their family. I think that Abraham had the faith of a child. When we think about Abraham, we tend to think about his obedience, obedience which was important and a right and goodful thing. But I think we can appreciate the passage from Hebrews best if we remember that Abraham’s faith was larger than just obedience, a relationship with God that consisted of more than just Abraham following commands. 

In our reading from the Hebrew scriptures, there is a reference to Sodom and Gomorrah, the two cities which the Torah tells us God destroyed in a rain of fire and brimstone. The Torah also tells us that Abraham argued with God over the fates of Sodom and Gomorrah: he negotiated, bargained. “Will you save the cities if there are 50 righteous people to be found?” “Will you save the cities if there 45?” “What abouty forty?” Talk about the faith of a child! I’m reminded of a child at a cookie jar: “Can I have a cookie, Mommy? Can I have two cookies? Three? Three and a half?” 

Abraham, while always remaining obedient to the will of God, was at the same time willing to challenge God, to question God, in his attempt to understand God’s will. 

Jacob, Abraham and Sarah’s grandson whom Isaiah also mentions, wrestled with the angel of the LORD at Penuel. When God revealed Godself to Moses, the descendent of Abraham and Sarah and the great leader of Israel who only saw the promised kingdom from afar, Moses too argued. He said, “I don’t think I can do this, God.” 

And God said, “Okay, I’ll send your sister and brother with you to help you.” That’s dialogue: a process which consists of both give and take for both persons involved. 

Moses constantly negotiated with God on behalf of the people of Israel. Indeed, we think of Sinai as this place where God’s will was committed to human beings, but it’s instructive to remember that Moses spent forty days and forty nights on Sinai before he brought down the Decalogue: they had a lot to talk about up there.

If there's a New Testament figure I see as a model for my faith, it's definitely St. Thomas. Quoting myself again, this time from an "unpreached" sermon:

 that when Thomas reached out for a deeper, relational connection with Christ, to see and touch and feel Jesus, the Risen Christ appeared. We are not required to hold blind faith, to believe without seeing. When we need Jesus, when we ask for Jesus, Jesus shows up. 

[. . .]

Thomas rejected holding a truth claim about Christ in favor of knowing the Christ, feeling and touching and seeing the Christ. And Jesus showed up. Jesus always shows up. Jesus tells us that Thomas' type of faith isn't the only type of faith which is valid or acceptable to God: "Blessed are they who have not seen and yet believe." This is no doubt an important corrective to the temptation to judge the faith of others, to declare it too uncritical, too simple, too uninformed or unenlightened. But I firmly believe--I cannot but believe--that those of us who are called to the faith of St. Thomas are blessed, too. How can we not be, when Jesus always shows up?

I love the second Sunday of Easter because it is this truth--that Jesus shows up, that Jesus always shows up--which fills me with joy like no other New Testament message can. The story of St. Thomas speaks to me so powerfully on a personal level, it is his story which fills me with hope like no other New Testament story can, because in Thomas I find a vision of a mature, questioning, critical faith which is not thwarted, but rather manages to find its fulfillment in Christ's Presence.

And the next week I wrote:

Once again this week, I find that I am a Thomas.

Thomas looks around at what he has on hand; he finds himself in a fishing boat. Rather than viewing the fishing boat as a distraction to the path in Christ he is called to follow, he uses the boat to bring himself to Christ--and he brings with him fish to eat, given to him through Jesus' power, so that he and Nathaniel and Peter can share a meal with Jesus, to break bread and share this time together as a Church, and to partake in the goodness of creation.

Last week, Thomas insisted on being able to see and touch the physical body of the Risen Christ. This week, he brings Jesus fish to eat. For Thomas, the Risen Christ is a not a spiritual ruler of a distant land, but someone who is always and already deeply enmeshed in the physical world of Creation. Tradition tells us that Thomas was a builder by trade; he was a man for whom the physical was never unimportant, who would have known intimately about the goodness of creation. 

Tradition tells us that Thomas, like Peter, was also martyred, dying as he lived, immersed in that physicality.

"This is my prayer: that your love may overflow more and more with knowledge and full insight to help you to determine what is best." -- "St. Paul's" [deutero-Pauline] Epistle to the Philippians 1:9-10

"Come now, let us argue it out, says the LORD." -- First Isaiah 1:18
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7 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2011 - 8:48PM #5
Posts: 140

CJBanning, thanks for sharing your thoughts and adding your model relationship (Thomas) to the mix.  I agree that Abraham's relationship with God transcended the obedient.  Certainly, it included obedience as does each of our commitment to follow Christ, but, as Pastor G are infamous for saying, there's more. 

Thanks again.  I enjoy and appreciate your responses.

Hugs and blessings,

pastor Sharon


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