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4 years ago  ::  May 15, 2010 - 3:09PM #11
Bob10
Posts: 374

Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen. Mk. 16:14.


John 20:19 shows us that the disciples were hiding for fear of the Jews; they were not gathered for worship.


 


www.bethelcog.org/church/general-article...

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4 years ago  ::  May 15, 2010 - 3:48PM #12
Bob10
Posts: 374

Campbellite --  the TRUTH?


3john 3,4 - "walk in truth"


 


1 kings 2:4 and 1kings 3:6 - David walks in Truth before God; David walks in His ways , keeping the commandments, statutes and His judgements.


 


"Oh, the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and knowledge of God. How unsearchable are his judgements and unfathomable his ways." - Rom. 11:33. NRSV

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4 years ago  ::  May 24, 2010 - 12:11PM #13
Bob10
Posts: 374

your law is truth - Ps. 119:142


all your commandments are truth - Ps. 119:151


Jn 17:17 - your word is truth


Ps. 119:160 (NRSV, NASB) - the sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous ordinances (judgements) endures forever.


Jn 16:13 - he will guide you into all truth.  see: Ez. 36:27.

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 20, 2010 - 3:08AM #14
Issabhandu1
Posts: 25

Apr 13, 2010 -- 2:09PM, Sisterintruth wrote:


 


Jesus also said that the Sabbath day was made for man, not man for sabbath. We celebrate  the Lords day on Sunday(At least I do) because when he rose again after Passover, it was the 1st day of the week when he showed himself to the disciples. The disciples gathered in the Upper room, he appeared to them, had fellowship. So the apostles started meeting on the first day of the week. they still taught to others on the Jewish Sabbath day, but also met on the other days.


 




---------------


On May 15, 2010 Bob10 wrote:


John 20:19 shows us that the disciples were  hiding for fear of the Jews; they were not gathered for worship.


---------------


Greetings Bob10,


     I thought I would re-enliven our board with a little continued discussion.


First of all, thank you for putting a link to Bible.Logos in your post.  What a nice site, where just a click away is the Holy Bible!


Upon arriving at that site, I see the complete context of the scripture you reference.


Jesus Resurrected and appeared before Mary, and then...


 18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that He had spoken these things to her.


19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, “Peace  be  with you.”  20 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.


 21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”  22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.  23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” 


- - - -


I agree with you Bob10, that the disciples were hiding from the Jews.  However, I can't imagine that Jesus appearing after His resurrection before His apostles, did not invoke great worship from them.  Not only did the Lord appear, but He gave His followers a commission... "I also send you".


Also, He gave them... The Holy Spirit.  


I feel that your point that this was not a worship service, may be lost to the fact that this was the first true presence of the Lord and the Holy Spirit at the end of all Passion and at the the very beginning of the Church Family in Faith and truly the God-present revelation of the Lord's followers.  It is the seed of all worship.  How could you be in the Lord's resurrected presence and not worship Him?


The difficulty I see in your reference is that, previous to the Lord's appearance, there really was no Church service planned.... after all, they were all just hiding in fear, not knowing what to do next.  Then Jesus appeared, told them what to do next, and gave them the power to do it.  I mean, that's what I go to Church for... to be told what to do next in my life, by the Lord and scripture, and gain the power with which to do it.


Perhaps you could give reference to the first Church service, and demonstrate how that day was actually the Sabbath.  Perhaps the day of Pentecost was the first Church service, as all disciples were preaching and many were converted.  That is certainly a Church service sort of behaviour.


Also, if I may say, through Jesus we are New Testament believers.  Your references to the Old Testament are the law previous to the appearance and sacrifice of the Son of God.


I have been taught that after Jesus' Ascension into Heaven that there really were not too many worship services going on.  Yes, there was evangelizing, but I was taught that historically, in the Jewish Temple, Peter and James sat in the back of the Temple, and when needy congregants  (like the lame, women, the displaced) would approach the Jewish Priests, they would send them to Peter and James because they belonged to a more compassionate form of the faith, and would give aid, because their Christ taught compassion.


Well, anyway, that's kinda my take on this.  I hope to hear from you soon!


 



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4 years ago  ::  Aug 31, 2010 - 1:52AM #15
Issabhandhu12
Posts: 25

Hi y'all,


Just thought I would put the Bible.Logos.com link here for convenience.


It's a great site to read the Bible.


Smile

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 10, 2010 - 3:08PM #16
Bob10
Posts: 374

Rev 22:14


It is those who do God's commandments who have a right to the Tree of Life, and the permission to enter the City of God.


www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=7149.0.12...


www.borntowin.net/newsite/

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 11, 2010 - 1:22PM #17
Issabhandhu12
Posts: 25

Oct 10, 2010 -- 3:08PM, Bob10 wrote:


Rev 22:14


It is those who do God's commandments who have a right to the Tree of Life, and the permission to enter the City of God.


www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=7149.0.12...


www.borntowin.net/newsite/





From "The Trumpet"


. . .The Roman Catholic Church is responsible for changing the Sabbath to  Sunday and enforcing Sunday observance. To assemble together on any  other day for a religious observance was considered unlawful. This was  confirmed at the Council of Laodicea almost 40 years later in a.d. 363. At that conference, it was decreed, “Christians must not Judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, resting rather on Sunday. But, if any be found to be Judaizing, let them be declared anathema [cursed and excommunicated] from Christ.”


- - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Revelations 22: 12 - 17


Jesus Testifies to the Churches


12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.  13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”


 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.  15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.


 16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”


 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Hi there Bob,


Good to see you again.  I have two points in response to your post.


First, above is a quote from the Trumpet.  When I came to the Orthodox church, it was explained to me that,; because Christ Rose on the first day of the week, that was the birth of historical Christianity.  That's why early Orthodox Christians had Liturgy on Sundays.  An additional service was added on Wednesdays to placate those Christians who wanted Liturgy twice in the week.  This was called "the liturgy of the pre-sanctified gifts"; preserved communion would be distributed.


Please note that the Roman Catholic Church did not exist until 1011 A.D.   Before that time, Rome was under the authority of a Bishop only.  Before the year 1000, there was ONLY the Orthodox Church (and also some irregular cells scattered about).  The Romans did not declare a Pope until 1011 ad and were immediately excommunicated by the original church Patriarchs.


This is a common mistake among the West; that researchers completely  ignore the existence of the original Orthodox Church and declare Rome to  be the source of all action.  This is really not the case.


Second,  I feel that you may think we get to heaven by observing commandments.  I am getting there by the sheer grace of God, for I have submitted my life to His Son's New Testament teachings.  (Jesus said these two great commandments are paramount..."Love God..." and "Love your neighbour as yourself").


Back in Kansas, the big discussion was; "grace or works?" What gets you there?


If you are saved by grace, then do good works to show your love and participation with God's will.  If you are working to get to heaven, but do not acknowledge God's Messenger....then you might have "unwashed robes".


I know my robes were washed in the blood of the Lamb, by grace, not works.


 


Forgive the directness of my reply, and please don't be offended if I am not more detailed.  Writing thorough posts is certainly time consuming.  But I'd love to slowly continue this thread in the future.


Issa.

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 29, 2010 - 1:01PM #18
Bob10
Posts: 374

                                                   Jesus and Paul agree


Jesus: "become the children of light" - Jn. 12:36
Paul: "walk as children of light" - Eph. 5:8



"The fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth" - Eph. 5:9, NRSV, NASB.
"Walk in the way of goodness and keep the paths of righteousness" - Prov. 2:20 (the words "goodness" and "righteousness" are from the center margin, Nelson KJV Study Bible).



Rom. 8:7-9 -- unless we keep "the law of God", we can not please God.
1Thes. 4:1 -- "....you learned from us how you ought to live and to please God (as, in fact, you are doing), you should do so more and more."



Jesus: Matt. 19:17, NIV -- “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
Paul: 1 Cor. 7:19, NRSV -- "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing; but obeying the commandments of God is everything."



Jehovah/Jesus: Follow (pursue) righteousness - Isa. 51:1
Seek His righteousness - Matt. 6:33
Paul: 1Tim. 6:11, 2Tim. 2:22 -- Follow (pursue) righteousness



Listen to Me, you who know righteousness,
      You people in whose heart is My law - Isa. 51:7
My righteousness will not be abolished - Isa. 51:6



"Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law" -- Rom 3:31, NRSV.


Hebrews 11:6 - without faith, it is impossible to please God 


 


 

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2011 - 10:40AM #19
Bob10
Posts: 374

Tell me, you that desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? - Gal. 4:21.


Whatever the law says, it speaks to those who are under the law - Rom 3:19, NASB.


The flesh and the spirit are in opposition to one another - but if you are led by the spirit you are not under the law - Gal. 5:17-18.


If you are led by the flesh, you are under the law. Now the works of the flesh are: adultery, lawlessness, jealousy, murder, idolatry, drunkenness, liars (Gal 5:19-21; 1Tim. 1:9-10).


The law is not made for a righteous man (1 Tim. 1:9), but when the righteous turns away (Heb 10:38-39; 2Pet. 2:21-22) from his righteousness and commits iniquity, like the wicked man, he shall even die in it. None of his righteous deeds will be remembered, for his treachery and his sin, for them he will die (Ez. 33: 13,18; Ez. 18:24,NASB).


The wicked are under the law. The wicked shed blood, are violent, defiles the neighbors wife, oppresses the poor and needy, lifts up his eyes to the idols, commits all these abominations. The wicked will not live; he will be put to death (Ez 18: 10-13, NASB).


The wicked and the righteous are in opposition to one another (Matt. 13: 47-50; Malachi 3:18)


 



 

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2 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2012 - 12:11PM #20
Rgurley4
Posts: 7,942

knowledge of the Lord (???)
 
aka


Should true Christ-followers meet to worship the TRI-UNE GOD only on our present "Saturdays"?


Bob10 #10
....The Sabbath day is not just one day out of seven. It is the seventh day....(/s/ an SDA?)


Hmmm...My Christian calendar shows that Monday is the FIRST day and  the SEVENTH day is SUNDAY ...( the day for worshipping the "Son of God" / "Son of Man")...
Jesus rose on the Seventh day, and Christ-followers gather formally in fellowship to remember Him on that day.


Jesus the Christ, the Messiah, the God-Man confirmed and clarified all of Moses' BIG TEN of the OT...
except one..."Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy"
And He gave us the BIG TWO: Love God + Love Neighbor as SELF....those 2 encompass ALL the Mosaic Law and the Prophets (of the OT)


Why?
Because the legalistic leaders of His time had perverted this ritualistic part of the Law and converted it to their own prideful use.


Matthew 16:21 (NASB)....[ Jesus Foretells His Death ]
From that time, Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem,
and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, (legalists!)...(betrayed on a dark "THURSDAY")
and be killed, (bleed to death on a Cross on a dark "FRIDAY")
and be raised up on the third day. (resurrection on a joyous "SUNDAY")


Matthew 28: 1...Jesus Is Risen!
Now after the Sabbath, (Jewish day ended at 6 pm)
as it began to dawn toward the FIRST DAY of the WEEK , ( our present SUNDAY morning)
Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.

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