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Switch to Forum Live View Can One Tree Bear Twelve Kinds of Fruit?
5 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 9:08PM #11
miami-ted
Posts: 981

Hello VC,


I've got an NIV and it doesn't say that.


Rev. 22:1-2  Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb, down the middle of the great street of the city.  On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month.


Everytime corn is planted and takes root and grows it produces a crop.  If you live in a temperate climate you can sometimes plant corn twice a year and it will yeild two crops.  The tree of life will apparently yeild a new crop of whatever fruit it produces every month.  As you read further you will see that we will be allowed to eat of the tree of life without cost for all of eternity.  There was also a tree of life in the original garden and when sin came into the world Adam and Eve were banished from the garden because they could no longer be allowed to eat of the tree of life and live forever.


God bless you.


In Christ, Ted

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 9:08PM #12
voice-crying
Posts: 7,222

Mar 3, 2010 -- 6:15PM, Jenandew7 wrote:


Christ is the tree of life.


Beyond that, it is a mystical symbol of the Jewish Kabala . . .




Why do you think that "Christ is the tree of life" in this scripture?


Also, there was NO "Jewish Kabala" when the book of Revelation was written.

"Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."Proverbs 18:21
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 9:16PM #13
miami-ted
Posts: 981

Hello Jen,


You wrote:


The Jews didn't even consider the story of Adam and Eve as literal--although it is a very important myth. 



It's worth considering that the Jews didn't understand the Scriptures as regards all the prophecies of the coming Messiah and were the working force that sentenced Jesus to death.  Jesus even condemned them in one passage as being the people who 'killed all the prophets'.  Therefore, I'd just recommend caution when trying to bolster an argument with, "Well, this is what the Jews believed."  It would be my reasoning that anything the general population of the Jews believed probably wasn't right in the first place.  Jesus continually rebuked and corrected them as being blind and unable to understand the things of God.


God bless you.


In Christ, Ted.

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 9:42PM #14
voice-crying
Posts: 7,222

Mar 3, 2010 -- 9:08PM, miami-ted wrote:


Hello VC,


I've got an NIV and it doesn't say that.


Rev. 22:1-2  Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb, down the middle of the great street of the city.  On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month.


Everytime corn is planted and takes root and grows it produces a crop.  If you live in a temperate climate you can sometimes plant corn twice a year and it will yeild two crops.  The tree of life will apparently yeild a new crop of whatever fruit it produces every month.  As you read further you will see that we will be allowed to eat of the tree of life without cost for all of eternity.  There was also a tree of life in the original garden and when sin came into the world Adam and Eve were banished from the garden because they could no longer be allowed to eat of the tree of life and live forever.


God bless you.


In Christ, Ted




Thank you Ted for sharing that info. 


I  used to study from the NIV (for years) until I found out that it sometimes misinterprets what the original manuscript/manuscripts actually said/says... so I had to stop using it, but, I love the way Ecclesiastes 1 reads.  But, just for laughs is sounds like the NIV saw the tree as bearing a fruit of the month...apples this month, next month pears, ect.  I'll have to try to research why they changed..."twelve manner of fruits" to "twelve crops of fruit"  they even removed the plural (s) from the word fruit/fruits. 


I believe that there is only one tree of life and it is the same one that you mentioned that was in the garden in Eden; only, in the future the tree will be nourished by the "pure river of water of life"  (Rev 22:1) the one in Eden was cared for by Adam...until he was kicked out.


 

"Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."Proverbs 18:21
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 10:05PM #15
Verdugo
Posts: 5,258

Mar 3, 2010 -- 9:03PM, voice-crying wrote:


This is what the text says:  "In the midst of the street of it and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."  Revelation 22:2


I don't know why A tree is producing 12 different kinds of fruit, but, what I do know is that the tree is literal and I know that the tree is not Jesus.  Look at verses 1 and 2.


The first verse says:  "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."  (Rev 22:1)


If a person says...this or that is a metaphor you need to follow that statement with an explanation.  This book (Revelation) reveals end time prophecy [things that will happen in the future]; it is not a secret.  There are many things that I don't understand and this is just one of them.




 


Actually the Bible, just like most of us in everyday life, uses metaphors all the time w/o saying "this is a metaphor" and w/o giving an explanation.  The Psalm I quoted earlier does not say "God is like a rock... metaphorically, of course".  It doesn't explain WHY God is a rock, it just says "God is a rock".  Similarly, when Jesus tells a parable he rarely says "now this is a parable-- a symbol" and only once does he give an explanation.  There are metaphors all throughout the Bible for all sorts of things, most are not "announced" or explained, you are meant to grasp it from the context.


 


There is nothing in the context here that requires this tree to be literal, and quite a lot to suggest it is a metaphor.

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 11:02PM #16
Jenandew7
Posts: 13,030

Mar 3, 2010 -- 9:08PM, voice-crying wrote:


Mar 3, 2010 -- 6:15PM, Jenandew7 wrote:


Christ is the tree of life.


Beyond that, it is a mystical symbol of the Jewish Kabala . . .




Why do you think that "Christ is the tree of life" in this scripture?



I don't believe it is.  But it is a longstanding Christian tradition.  I've run into it in several places because Jesus gave us eternal life through his death on the cross. It is a fairly widespread concept in Christianity. 


I thought I would just google it and I came up with this hymn that was published in Baptist hymnals--which, I think, should prove that it isn't a new idea across the board:  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Christ_the_A...  (note the words) 


Here is a book written by William Henry Ward published in 1864 (He cites Romans 14:25-27):  Christ the Tree of Life


Here is a Mormon site:  farmsoldsite.farmsresearch.com/publicati...


Here is a Gnostic site that gives a history of Kabbalah as well as connecting the Inner Christ and the Tree of Life:  home.earthlink.net/~gnosisla/April5.html


Also, there was NO "Jewish Kabala" when the book of Revelation was written.




I beg your pardon!  What makes you think that?  There has always been a Jewish mystical tradition.  Ask the Jews. 


A.

If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. --Isaiah 58:10
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 11:02PM #17
miami-ted
Posts: 981

 

Strong's Number:   2590    
Original Word Word Origin
karpoß probably from the base of (726)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Karpos 3:614,416
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
kar-pos'  html_removed

















 
Noun Masculine

Definition

  1. fruit
    1. the fruit of the trees, vines, of the fields
    2. the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity

  2. that which originates or comes from something, an effect, result
    1. work, act, deed
    2. advantage, profit, utility
    3. praises, which are presented to God as a thank offering
    4. to gather fruit (i.e. a reaped harvest) into life eternal (as into a granary), is used in fig. discourse of those



 



The NAS translates the word 66


 benefit 2, crop 5, crops 2, descendants* 1, fruit 43, fruitful 1, fruits 4, grain 1, harvest 1, proceeds 1, produce 4, profit 1


From all that I can tell there doesn't seem to be any Greek word in the sentence structure that would be translated as 'manner' or 'kinds'.  These words appear to have been added for unknown reasons.


There is also a word for word parallel translation here and again you won't find the 'manner' or 'kinds' there.


biblos.com/revelation/22-2.htm


From all that I find. a valid argument could certainly stand that the passage is referring to twelve monthly harvests of the same crop each month from the tree.


I must commend you, however, for asking the question as it had honestly never occured to me that there was a possibility that the one tree might bear different fruits.  Many of the commentaries that I checked on did seem to assume that there were actually 12 varieties of fruit.  All I can say is that it is certainly possible, but surely makes more sense that it refers to 12 crop harvests of the same fruit each month.  It's one that we may be forced to wait and see.  I know for myself that there are many such places in Scripture where I am forced to take that attitude and especially in the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ.


God bless you.


In Christ, Ted.

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5 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 11:10PM #18
Jenandew7
Posts: 13,030

Mar 3, 2010 -- 9:16PM, miami-ted wrote:


Hello Jen,


You wrote:


The Jews didn't even consider the story of Adam and Eve as literal--although it is a very important myth. 



It's worth considering that the Jews didn't understand the Scriptures as regards all the prophecies of the coming Messiah and were the working force that sentenced Jesus to death.  Jesus even condemned them in one passage as being the people who 'killed all the prophets'.  Therefore, I'd just recommend caution when trying to bolster an argument with, "Well, this is what the Jews believed."  It would be my reasoning that anything the general population of the Jews believed probably wasn't right in the first place.  Jesus continually rebuked and corrected them as being blind and unable to understand the things of God.


God bless you.


In Christ, Ted.




That is supposed to be based on logic, Ted?  Surely you know more about agriculture than that!   Certainly, a crop like corn can be planted to yeild more than one crop a season--by staggering planting, you can have fresh corn over a period of weeks.  That doesn't even take a temperate climate!  Gardeners do it all the time.  Not so often with corn because corn polinates by the wind and so it is helpful to have a lot of corn planted, but crops like lettuce, spinach, etc. are planted that way routinely. 


But a tree!  Whereas each stalk of corn produces fruit in its time then dies, trees produce one crop a year.  There is no way to stagger plant ONE tree.  There is no comparison and no possibility, temperate climate or no. 


A.


 

If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. --Isaiah 58:10
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2010 - 11:23PM #19
Jenandew7
Posts: 13,030

 


Mar 3, 2010 -- 9:16PM, miami-ted wrote:


Hello Jen,


You wrote:


The Jews didn't even consider the story of Adam and Eve as literal--although it is a very important myth. 



It's worth considering that the Jews didn't understand the Scriptures as regards all the prophecies of the coming Messiah and were the working force that sentenced Jesus to death.  Jesus even condemned them in one passage as being the people who 'killed all the prophets'.  Therefore, I'd just recommend caution when trying to bolster an argument with, "Well, this is what the Jews believed."  It would be my reasoning that anything the general population of the Jews believed probably wasn't right in the first place.  Jesus continually rebuked and corrected them as being blind and unable to understand the things of God.


God bless you.


In Christ, Ted.




I saved this.  I thought it was worthy of a post of its own.  I am so sorry to say this, Ted, but the Jews are not any more stupid, or likely to miss the Messiah any more than any other people in general.  The very thing we should take from that lesson is that MANKIND gets a mindset and then blinds himself to the truth!  It isn't a Jewish thing.  It's very nice that you have been handed this ancient religion based on the Messiah and others recognized him and spread the word and wrote it down for us to read now. 


It is a good question to ask ourselves:  Would we recognize a prophet or the Messiah were we in their position?  Wisdom tells me we very well could get it wrong.


What did they expect the Messiah to do?  Why did they not accept his geneology?  Why did they not accept his teachings?  We get married to an idea like inerrency of scripture and we won't let it go.  ;)


Peace.


A.


 


(edited in an attempt to fix code and clarify.)

Moderated by Beautiful_Dreamer on Mar 04, 2010 - 09:13PM
If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. --Isaiah 58:10
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5 years ago  ::  Mar 04, 2010 - 12:01AM #20
Campbellite
Posts: 2,068

Mar 3, 2010 -- 4:58PM, voice-crying wrote:


Mar 3, 2010 -- 4:21PM, Verdugo wrote:


One word: metaphor.




"A metaphor is an analogy between two objects or ideas, conveyed by the use of a word instead of another."


 




What's a metaphor?  Why it's a place to keep your cows, as any fule no.

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