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Switch to Forum Live View Can of Worms! (tough issues in CC)
6 years ago  ::  Jul 22, 2008 - 5:56PM #11
Phantasm
Posts: 767
Here's a can of worms for all of ya: how does the Book of Revalations fit into Celtic Christianity?

:)



Hia, guys!  (Phantasm says as he waves cheerilly.)  How's everything going around here?
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 22, 2008 - 6:46PM #12
mfjfarrell
Posts: 236
Dia annseo isteach!
God to all here!

Greetings Phantasm,

Welcome back! 

"how does the Book of Revalations fit into Celtic Christianity?"  Well, it would be called The Apocalypse! (hehehe)  All Scriptures presently held by Protestants as sacred, plus a few others found in the Catholic Bible, were revered as God's Holy Word.  They believed simply in the Gospel message but would not be too comfortable with the Modern Fundamentalist agenda.  They believed in the Second Coming, the Parousia, but their primary concern was not for the future but the present!  To evangelize the world was the sole purpose of Celtic Evangelism.

Modernists hold the Book of Revelation as a 'key' to the future.  The Celts held that Eternity is within God and He is within all Life!  Eternity is Now!  The process of how we are to transition to it was of less importance than the reality of Harmony with God in this life.

I'm not sure if I've explained it sufficiently enough for you but please feel free to correct me where I've been obtuse or vague....

Slan,
Marty
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 22, 2008 - 11:47PM #13
Phantasm
Posts: 767
Actually, I was just pulling you guys' legs.  I was just using the situation to re-introduce myself to the board.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 22, 2008 - 11:59PM #14
Phantasm
Posts: 767
On the serious side, I just thought of a potential problem:

How do we deal with differences in cannon among the major branches of Christianity?  I happen to know that the Ethiopian Church accepts books into its' Bible that are unique to their church.  (Actually, this church might be a good tangent to pursue to understand Islam, as the two faiths are close neighbors, but that's a totally seperate issue.)  And Catholics accept the Aprochrapha, filling in the historical blank space existant in the Protestant Bible's Old and New Testaments.  Why the Protestants decided to reject these books I'll never truely understand.

Some folks here in the States might be inclined to call both Catholics and the Ethiopians heritics because of this.  How do you promote understanding when different Christians might not be on the same page, literally?  This situation strikes me as alarming........
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2008 - 8:19AM #15
mfjfarrell
Posts: 236
Dia annseo isteach!
God to all here!

Greetings Phantasm,

Good question (as usual!).  "How do you promote understanding when different Christians might not be on the same page, literally?"  Being Irish, I'll answer you with another, 'Is it our purpose here to promote understanding?'

A few years back I read a book I think you'd enjoy, 'Irish Biblical Apocrypha', edited by Maire Herbert and Martin McNamara.  Its an interesting read into the Irish mindset of what was considered to be piety!  Should we include these stories also?

Actually, my understanding of Celtic Evangelism was totally different than that of the Roman mission.  The Romans always went to the cities where there were the greatest number of people and resources for building a significant church.  The Celts preferred the 'country folk', pagani, and generally set up their abbies and churches in the rural places.  There, you can be more in harmony with your surroundings!

The Romans preached!  If you accepted their words you were allowed to become a catechumen and begin the long process of being accepted into their church.  The Celts went to a place and began to work!  As they worked, others would join them.  As they worked together, inevitably the question came up, "Why are you doing this?"  Therein was the witness in the life and work of the Celts who worked side by side!  Many joined the Church because they saw the life and Love of God with the brothers and sisters who labored together for the common good.

Canons are man's inventions!  It was necessary in the Early Church, because of all the spurious writings, to distinguish what the Christian message was really about.  Many disagreed with some of the selections (and rightly so!) but eventually settled with the ones we have now.  Even the ones we have, however, were altered over time because of pervading currents in society! (but that's another story)  So, the question then becomes, would the 'accepted books' actually alter the way the Celts witnessed of Christ?

Good to have you back amongst us...

Slan,
Marty
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2008 - 10:42AM #16
Tassiecelt
Posts: 46
One step ahead of ye Marty, I've read that, yes it's good!
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2008 - 11:00AM #17
Tassiecelt
Posts: 46
Marty, just letting you know that I'm still working my way through his books that I bought. I'm a terribly slow reader!

There are some real concerns..ie "The Book of Creation" page 21, there is the strong suggestion that as the new testament followed on from the old testament, so celtic belief followed on from Druidic belief!!

That is a totally off comment, in the realm of fruitcake I would say. The Druidic belief system was a time of darkness, ignorance and evil. It kept it's adherents in fear and bondage.

How this can be compared with God's dealing with His Nation Israel and the NT church completely escapes me.

I continue to read, but am beginning to wonder if Newells writings truly reflect the teachings of great men like patrick and columba.
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2008 - 12:14PM #18
mfjfarrell
Posts: 236
Hey Graham,

Nice to hear you're still plodding along as the Spirit leads!  I'm a slow reader (maybe dim witted?) as well!  Just hang on and let the Great Teacher keep speaking as you read.

As for Newell's 'Book of Creation', I went to page 21 but disagree with your conclusions.  The previous section was dealing with the cultural influences that were intrinsic to Celtic worship, such as our penchant for worshiping outside, our Church without Walls.  At the top of 21, here's what I see as similar to your concerns.

"It was typical of the Celtic Church to see its worship of Christ as building on the truths and symbols of the mysticism that preceded Christianity in Britain.  Aspects of its ancient mythology and nature religion were the equivalent of an Old Testament for the Celtic mission.  Christ was the fulfillment of all that was true, whether that was the priestly and prophetic traditions of Judaism or of its own Celtic druidical past.

From your posting, I get the impression that you consider the druids little more than 'black arts witches'.  Actually, they held much higher positions in Celtic society!  They were the lawyers, the physicians, the musicians and sages and not the workers of black arts that many choose to portray them as!  There are even stories how one of the druids was told in a dream of the coming of the master Druid.  Remember Columba's "Christ is my druid" comment?

Anyway, the Celts took what they knew about Creation, Nature and Mankind, and brought it into their understandings of the 'Good News'!  They appreciated Creation as before and still sought to see the Source of Life in all!  Christ replaced their ignorance and became the center of all they knew and loved...  Hope that helps a bit!

Slan,
Marty
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2008 - 10:42AM #19
Tassiecelt
Posts: 46
One step ahead of ye Marty, I've read that, yes it's good!
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6 years ago  ::  Jul 23, 2008 - 11:00AM #20
Tassiecelt
Posts: 46
Marty, just letting you know that I'm still working my way through his books that I bought. I'm a terribly slow reader!

There are some real concerns..ie "The Book of Creation" page 21, there is the strong suggestion that as the new testament followed on from the old testament, so celtic belief followed on from Druidic belief!!

That is a totally off comment, in the realm of fruitcake I would say. The Druidic belief system was a time of darkness, ignorance and evil. It kept it's adherents in fear and bondage.

How this can be compared with God's dealing with His Nation Israel and the NT church completely escapes me.

I continue to read, but am beginning to wonder if Newells writings truly reflect the teachings of great men like patrick and columba.
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