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Switch to Forum Live View Revelations and the End Times
4 years ago  ::  Nov 25, 2008 - 11:29PM #1
Liriodendron
Posts: 36
At the risk of adding too much conversation at one time.....  I'm curious about what the Celtic Christian view of Revelations and the End Times is.

I'm reading a parallel commetary of Revelations that compares the Historisist, the Peterist, the Futurist, and the Spritualist/Idealist view of every verse of Revelations.  It's the most balanced, least histerical, presentation that I've ever seen..
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 28, 2008 - 7:43AM #2
mfjfarrell
Posts: 236
Dia annseo isteach!
God to all here!

Greetings Lillian,

I hope your Thanksgiving was pleasant!  We had so much food, fun and fellowship... I can't wait for the kids to go back home!!!  BTW, too much conversation???  I can't say that has ever happened here!

Revelation did not hold the same importance to the Celts as it does with the Evangelicals.  The 'other world' was always behind the thin veil that separates this life from Eternity.  Roman and Conservative Christian traditions, holding that this world is corrupt and doomed to extinction, always tend to look to the future for a better life.  The Celts were convinced that Christ is within and behind all that exists here and all life is sacred.  The task of living for Christ in the 'here and now' consumed more of their thinking than the future promises.  In their writings, occasionally you will see some references to a few of the major themes in Revelation but it doesn't have the same impact as you might find in Evangelical writings of today.

I'm not familiar with all those various approaches to Revelation.  Would you be willing to share some gleanings when you finish it?  Thanks again for all your participation here.. its been good for all of us!

Slan,
Marty
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 28, 2008 - 1:56PM #3
Liriodendron
Posts: 36
Your comparison of Catholic/Protestant orientation and Celtic orientation reminds me of a comparison I read between Native American and Western orientation:  that the West (and Judaism) sees history progressing linearly to a future climax where as Native Americans see history as moving is cycles and the important thing is aligning with and maintaining the cycles.  So they didn't have much in the way of apocalyptic literature until after the whites came and took over; then some religious traditions built up around a day when God would intervene to end the hardship brought by the whites and peace and wellbeing would return.  (I'd have to hunt down my book to be more specific.)  I guess whenever a group feels oppressed or opposed they are more likely to look to an apocalypse for a solution.

Briefly here are what the approaches are about:

Historicist:  that Revelation symbolically maps out the course of history (at least of the church) from John's time to the end.  Some of the symbolism fits impressively with historic events like the Gothic invasions or Turkish invasions, but toward modern times things get a lot less obvious.  This group also tends to equate the Papacy with the anti-christ.

Preterist:  They think all (or most) of Revelations pertains to the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 with Christ's "coming" to be understood in the same way as God would sometimes say in the Old Testament that He was coming in judgment on some country.  At first I thought that was too unimportant of a subject to warrant a whole prophetic book; but if I consider how it was really and truly the end of the Old Covenant (and the sacrifices and temple worship of the Old Covenant) and sort of a verification that the New Covenant was in effect - then I can see their point.

Futurists:  This is mostly the "Left Behind"/"Late, Great Planet Earth" group  although not all futurists give Jews such a big role in there understand of what will happen or believe that the rapture will remove Christians before the tribulation.

Spiritualist:  They see the events as things that occur in every generation (usually as punishment) and the main message is that God is still always in control.
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4 years ago  ::  Nov 29, 2008 - 8:46AM #4
mfjfarrell
Posts: 236
Dia annseo isteach!
God to all here!

Hey Lillian,

There is much that's common to both Celtic Spirituality and Native American Spirituality.  'Hoki Manitou' and 'The Source', reverence for life in all things as well as people, Harmony with Nature, Cycle of Life as a great wheel (circle on Celtic Cross), Seasons of death and renewal of Life, are common to both as well as present in many other indigenous religions.  I'm amazed that in many cultures they have an excellent understanding of the 'ethics' of right living so similar to Christianity.  One of the reasons the Good News was so well received in the Celtic lands originally was its similarity to the beliefs the common people already held.

Prior to Patrick's mission to the North of Ireland there had been a Roman attempt in the South by Palladius.  It had rather limited success.  Patrick knew the people and had the wisdom to incorporate their original beliefs into the Good News he was bringing them.  That took hold and caught like wild fire!  They were well aware of what Rome had done with its armies to the Celtic lands of Gaul and Britain, they weren't about to submit to the 'Roman Religion' being introduced there.  Their Brehon Law was completely different from the Roman and Hebraic legal systems.  Leaders were always chosen from among the people and maintained their status of 'one of us' as compared to the Roman idea of 'hierarchy'.  About the only thing they accepted of the Roman way was Writing!!!  Their passion for it never dimmed!

Well, I'm wandering here...  Thanks again for your interest in us and in sharing your Journey.  May the Lord of Light grant you the insights you need....

Slan,
Marty
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2008 - 9:38PM #5
Liriodendron
Posts: 36
I wonder if the difference between the religion of Western Civilization (and I'd even include Islam in that) and Indigenous cultures is the difference between the worldview of Bronze Age people and Iron Age people.

And that makes me wonder about the difference between 'Civilized' China (even hundreds of years ago) and Indigenous China.
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 02, 2008 - 9:38PM #6
Liriodendron
Posts: 36
I wonder if the difference between the religion of Western Civilization (and I'd even include Islam in that) and Indigenous cultures is the difference between the worldview of Bronze Age people and Iron Age people.

And that makes me wonder about the difference between 'Civilized' China (even hundreds of years ago) and Indigenous China.
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