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Switch to Forum Live View Do you believe that Jesus is God? Why?
4 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2009 - 8:18PM #1
Godgirl
Godgirl
Posts: 973
Do you believe that Jesus is God? or not? Why? What scripture, personal experience or thought processes have lead you to believe he is God. And if you dont believe, why?
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 16, 2009 - 9:12PM #2
Hatman
Hatman
Posts: 9,477

Godgirl wrote:

Do you believe that Jesus is God? or not? Why? What scripture, personal experience or thought processes have lead you to believe he is God. And if you dont believe, why?



When I was young, I believed everything I was told about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, apostles, trinity, etc.

As I grew older, and began to have questions, it occurred to me that if it was true that there are 3 Persons of the Trinity, the Son canNOT be the Father, for if so, there would BE no Son.

After reflecting on "I and My Father are One"(John 10:30) and "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father," however, I believe that this "Oneness" Christ teaches of is a literal melding of souls into Spirit, like a drop of water that returns to the Ocean.  The Son is too small to contain but a drop of the Father until He returns to Him, at which time He becomes One---in purpose, in heart, in intention, in will.  So, in this sense, Christ and the Father are One, therefore it is not entirely untrue to say that "Jesus is God."

Curiously enough(and this often requires some long-term reflection, prayer, integrity, and honesty of soul), Christ invites us to that SAME Oneness, as evidenced at John 10:34,35, 14:20, 17:11, and 17:20-24, just for starters.  Then, too, there's John 14:12, i.e. "These things that I do, ye shall do also; and greater things than these shall ye do, because I go to the Father."

Personally, I believe the promises of Christ are quite true and reliable, to those who continue having faith that they are, and act on that great Faith.

I will do my best not to engage in argument with any on this issue on this board; since such understandings are often quite controversial, and this board is designated SPECIFICALLY as an area in which arguments are NOT ALLOWED, do not be surprised, GodGirl, if this thread gets transferred to, say, Christian-to-Christian debate.

IIRC, here we are allowed to share where OUR faith journey has led us, but neither to correct nor condemn nor engage in disputes with other members, as there are literally dozens of boards that are not so protected, where disputations, confrontations, contentiousness, and argument are not only welcomed, but encouraged.

I have been guilty of violating this rule, myself, at times; it is often quite difficult to refrain from saying "You're wrong," especially when you sincerely believe that another is abiding in quite a bit of error.  I'm doing better at this, that is, exercising that flavor of the Fruit of the Spirit called "self-control."

However, if I ever have the temerity to utter(or write) the words "I and my Father are One," I will expect the same or similar reaction from "christians" as Christ received from the Jews in John 10.

Warmest regards-

Hatman

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 16, 2009 - 10:36PM #3
1SonofGod
1SonofGod
Posts: 171
Genesis 1:26-28 (Amplified Bible)
26God said, Let Us [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit] make mankind in Our image, after Our likeness, and let them have complete authority over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the [tame] beasts, and over all of the earth, and over everything that creeps upon the earth.(A)

    27So God created man in His own image, in the image and likeness of God He created him; male and female He created them."

John 1:9-14 (Amplified Bible)
9There it was--the true Light [was then] coming into the world [the genuine, perfect, steadfast Light] that illumines every person.(A)

    10He came into the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him [did not know Him].

    11He came to that which belonged to Him [to His own--His domain, creation, things, world], and they who were His own did not receive Him and did not welcome Him.

    12But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name--(B)

    13Who owe their birth neither to [a]bloods nor to the will of the flesh [that of physical impulse] nor to the will of man [that of a natural father], but to God. [They are born of God!]

    14And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled (fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us; and we [actually] saw His glory (His honor, His majesty), such glory as an only begotten son receives from his father, full of grace (favor, loving-kindness) and truth.
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 16, 2009 - 10:38PM #4
1SonofGod
1SonofGod
Posts: 171
We are not meant to understand everything about God. If we knew everything about God, then God would not be God.   There are things that we will always wonder and that is God's intent.

Isaiah 55:8-9 (Amplified Bible)

8For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, says the Lord.

    9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts."
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 26, 2009 - 1:09PM #5
Lookbeyond
Lookbeyond
Posts: 568

1SonofGod wrote:

We are not meant to understand everything about God. If we knew everything about God, then God would not be God.   There are things that we will always wonder and that is God's intent.

Isaiah 55:8-9 (Amplified Bible)

8For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, says the Lord.

    9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts."


****************************************************************************
John 17:3
"And this is life eternal that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent."

The more we come to know God, our Eternal Father, the more we will understand where we came from, why we are here, and where we are going when life's experiences are over. Hosea 4:6 says, "my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.  Luke 24:39 is teaching of the resurrected Christ, having a body of flesh and bones....it also teaches us that, like the Apostles who were frightened because the supposed they had seen a "spirit" but in reality saw the resurrected Christ, our spirits resemble our physical bodies.....remember when Christ appeared to Mary and did not allow her to touch Him because He had not yet ascended to the Father, and was not yet reunited with His physical body that remained in the Tomb.... Again we are being taught the nature of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, as well as our own natures.  When we die our bodies will go to the grave, but our spirits will go to "paradise" where all spirits go to await the resurection and judgement.

We should also remember Matthew 5:48 which says, "be ye therefore perfect even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."   What does this infer? We must learn the perfections of God, and Jesus Christ.
Acts 17:27-28 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far fom every one of us: For in him we live, and move and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.......

This tells us of our potential as the "offspring" of God, our Eternal Father. Hebrews 12:9 confirms our heritage as well.  Hebrews 5:8 tells us something about the Savior, some don't understand. "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him...."  Christ became God the Son when He was made perfect through His mortal sufferings. He had to learn obedience before He could gain the perfection like His Father, evenso, we too must learn obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ if we are to ever reach the perfection encouraged in Matthew, and if we expect to come before our FAther, through Jesus Christ, reconciled that we might receive exaltation in the Kingdom of God.

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4 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2009 - 6:59PM #6
friendofsaints&angels
friendofsaints&angels
Posts: 1,327

Godgirl wrote:

Do you believe that Jesus is God? or not? Why? What scripture, personal experience or thought processes have lead you to believe he is God. And if you dont believe, why?


Hey Godgirl,I am Catholic and without quoting all of the teachings of the Catholic church on this, & just giving you the answer that comes form my heart, do I believe that Jesus is God? Yes. Why? because He tells us so several times in Sacred Scripture. besides all of the miracles that Jesus performed & the way that He taught the word of God with authority, there are other things that our Saviour has revealed to us in His teachings and words in the Bible. when people asked Jesus what God looked like, Jesus replied "now that you have seen the Son, you have seen the Father." also when Jesus had risen from the dead, He stated, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." I believe that Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are three different beings, but they are also one, as all of us on earth are meant to be in this lifetime. Jesus also talks about being one with the Father as the Father is also one with the Son, etc. I also do believe that the Catholic church teachings on this matter are 100% correct.

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4 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2009 - 10:22PM #7
soonvapor
soonvapor
Posts: 14
These are the things which EVIDENCE can prove:
1) Jesus of Nazareth was a real, historical person (circa 2000 years ago.
2) That man had a well know and well document mission during his early 30's.
3) Non-biblical historians verify the above.
4) Jesus was never recorded as doing or saying anything which was untrue, except by those who were politically threatened by his existence.
5) The self-proclaimed mission was to reveal the nature of God, whom he claim was his "Father" (not an earthly father, mind you), to mankind. He did this by telling people what was the best way to live a life abundantly.
6) To this day, no one has ever refuted that his teachings were invalid.
7) Jesus was executed by those who were in power because he threatened their authority if too many people began to listen to Jesus instead of listening to them. This threat included a financial loss if people no longer provided money to their established place of worship!
8) Jesus foretold that if he was killed, he would arise from the dead on the third day.
9) The leaders of the day wanted to guarantee his body would not be stolen and perpetrate a fraud! They placed battle-hardened soldiers as guards on the tomb of Jesus.
10) Jesus arose from the dead anyway. He was seen over 40 days thereafter by hundreds of eye-witnesses.
11) No historian has ever successfully refuted that the death and resurrection was a fraud!

THEREFORE:

If Jesus is exactly who he said he is, it is our job to listen (i.e. read and study and hear knowledgeable people) to what Jesus was teaching. Jesus becomes an authority on the subject. We must become a student.

...who do you say Jesus is?
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2009 - 10:29PM #8
soonvapor
soonvapor
Posts: 14
In my previous comment my #11 sentence should more clearly read as follows:

11) No historian has every proven that the ressurection after the death of Jesus was untrue. What all historians have recorded was the acknowledgement that the followers of Jesus had a number of eye-witnesses to the resurrection, and that their numbers were growing. This was like news reports written down. There was never any written document in the first 1,000 years after the events that even suggested that the representations were anything but facts!

I also add the following comment: arguments that Jesus was fictional, or that the facts surrounding the events were made up have never surfacted until the last two centuries (19th and 20th Centuries).
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 22, 2009 - 10:36PM #9
Hatman
Hatman
Posts: 9,477
Lookbeyond-

We should also remember Matthew 5:48 which says, "be ye therefore perfect even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." What does this infer?


This is what was revealed to me: Since Our Lord teaches that "God is spirit, and those who worship Him worship Him in Spirit and in Truth," then He is saying that we are to be perfect(or perfected) in Spirit; our flesh---as is---can never be perfect, not as long as we poop and pee like the rest of the animals, that is.

Warmest regards-

Hatman

"History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse, deceit, intrigue, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance."
-- James Madison(1751-1836), Father of the Constitution for the USA, 4th US President
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 23, 2009 - 12:52AM #10
kurnell
kurnell
Posts: 294
Jesus spoke Aramaic, and there happens to be  no word for 'perfect' in Aramaic. So Jesus never  could have said this.
pax
Jeffrey
Treasure your experience of God,however it comes to you.Remember that Christianity is not a notion but a way.
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