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Switch to Forum Live View being none judgemental and loving the person not the sin
5 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2009 - 9:16PM #31
Godgirl
Posts: 973
Good sugestion thanks!
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2009 - 9:23PM #32
Godgirl
Posts: 973
I guess i also have to fix myself or my friends arnt going to see a model of someone that they should be like but only a half commited person. Because i have been debating lately wheter to stick with christianity or leave it. So my friends must be real confused by the lack of consistency they see in me. I still dont think my friend is going to change her wild ways but maybe i can be around her less and then she will get the message. I am already around her less as it is but maybe i should just try to be around her even less and talk to her less. There is a description I read in a bible that if you take a quarter and two pennies...and if the quarter is supost to represent God and that quarter moves then you can move close to the quarter or move close to the penny but you cant be near both. (that is if the penny (your friend) is farther away from the quarter (God) and you are moving toward the quarter. Perhaps one of the reasons why i dont like my friends is the more i am around them the more i become like them. The bible says good company corupts bad company. So the more I am around them the more likely i am to glorify sin as they do. I guess i still dont have a very firm foundation.
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2009 - 9:36PM #33
tawonda
Posts: 4,367
Well what if my friend said during the time she was sleeping with her boyfriend that she is close to God? What on earth was i supost to say to her then? Should i just say "oh thats Good that your close to God." Also when she asked about my brother and i said he is moving in with his girlfriend she said "oh well thats good there taking the next step." Am i just supost to sit by and let that be the last comment instead of saying "well thats not good in Gods eyes." [/i

I'm not sure why you feel compelled to be the moral nanny of these people, especially since you've told me that you don't really know [i]why
things you perceive as sins are sins.

First of all, a little values clarification is in order: Why do you think that having sexual relationships outside the context of a committed relationship is a bad thing?  Why is that behavior "broken," not whole/healthy? If you don't understand why casual/uncommitted hookups aren't the best way for human beings to relate to one another (and there are some good, compelling reasons why they're not a good idea), then you're not in a position to criticize someone engaging in that behavior, are you? Remember -- this isn't "Simon Says."

If you do understand the "why" here, and just want to be a friend who wants to help a friend live a more whole, healthy life -- and you do need to be honest about this, and not say that's what you want to do when what you really want to do is play moral "gotcha" -- perhaps you might ask your friend questions: "How is this relationship working for you?" "Do you see a future with this person?" "What if you get pregnant?" (or "What if you get your girlfriend pregnant?")  "Does it bother you that there's no commitment here?"  If you do this -- and if you truly listen to and care about the answers -- you can generate some helpful  thought and conversation.

And -- just an observation -- "sin" isn't all, or even mostly, about sex. Sadly, even churches seem to become oddly fixated on sexual issues, instead of taking a balanced approach to discussing human foibles and failings. If your concerns about sin and morality are all about sex, you aren't getting that.
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2009 - 9:46PM #34
tawonda
Posts: 4,367
BTW, my theological education has failed to acquaint me with the citations you say you're getting from the Bible, or from your "taking the Bible seriously" church.

If you think that hanging around with your current circle of friends is doing more harm to you than being a help to them, then you are right to reconsider your circle of friends, or expand your circle to include more people who will support you in your faith walk and be positive role models for you. I think you're right to want to spend some time clarifying your own beliefs and values.
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 14, 2009 - 11:14PM #35
Godgirl
Posts: 973
Well in regards to sex outside of marrige i know that there is a risk factor of disease and pregnancy. I know alot of times one partner will just use the other partner for sex. In my friends case her boyfriend (who is now her husband) said he would have broken up with her after the third date if they didnt have sex (I believe they had sex on the first date) because then he wouldnt "get what he wanted." And he said this right in front of her and she was ok with it because baisicaly shes a sexaholic. Also he told her before they married that once they were married he could leave at any time, and she still married him. I think that sex outside of marriage is wrong because the walk is about purity and one way to be pure is to abstian from sex untill married. I myself have not done this BUT i have done my best to stay pure once i was a christian. Also i remeber how i felt used when i was sleeping with a boyfriend. There is no commitment and often times you just feel degraded even if they say "I love you." My other friend is begining to get sexual with his girlfriend but i dont care about that so much because he doesnt claim to be a christian so he is not being a hypocrite.
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2009 - 6:33AM #36
tawonda
Posts: 4,367
1. Just a question: If "the walk is about purity," isn't it also about things like compassion, respect, honesty, personal integrity, etc.? Again, I'm just trying to figure out what powers your moral compass and why.

2. What is your desired outcome in getting involved in "calling out" these people in regard to their sexual relationships? 

3. As my old therapist would ask: What is your payoff in getting involved as an active, vocal commentator/critic  upon these relationships? Because you have some choices here. You can decide that you're simply better off finding a different group of friends. You can "offer it up" to God and pray that God will help your friends/relatives will find wholeness and peace, and concentrate on your own spiritual formation -- which you have a lot more control over.  You can remain friendly with the parties involved but indicate that your values are in a different place -- not by criticizing what they believe and think and do, but by affirming what you believe and think and do. Or you can try to intervene and "make them stop." What's the cost/benefit analysis, so to speak, of these different approaches?
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2009 - 9:45AM #37
KatherineOrthodixie
Posts: 3,689
Other peoples' behavior/morality is none of my business, unless it affects me, which it generally doesn't. Or unless they ask for my help or are unhappy.

So if a friend were to discuss behaviors that are in conflict with my beliefs, I would probably say something on the order of,"you know my beliefs about that, so I really don't want to discuss this, but I love you and value you as a friend." (While Dr. Phil is not someone I listen to, I do like his question, "And how's that working for you?")

The Orthodox understanding of sin is medical, similar to what tawonda told you. That is, sin is not simply a wrong choice or a wrong action (though naturally it can be that) but it is a chronic and ultimately fatal disease - that we all suffer from. Just like any disease, we can get better, with God's help, and by using tools that He has given us, such as prayer, ascetic practices, studying Scripture, worship, and participating in Christian community. And of course, Christ has rescued us from the ultimate consequences of our disease - death.
“The Law of the Church is to give oneself to what is given not to seek one’s own.” Fr. Alexander Schmemann
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2009 - 9:52AM #38
Tmarie64
Posts: 5,277
Katherine is right.
And chronically judging others is a sin.   Here is a quote that is apropos of the original 2 posts...
[QUOTE]1 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 “For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 “Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 “You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.[/QUOTE]

Loose translation... Worry about your own sins before complaining about someone else's.
I can't believe that you have no sins.  I can't believe that you don't see your own faults.
James Thurber - "It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers."
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2009 - 12:00PM #39
KatherineOrthodixie
Posts: 3,689
"The Christian has no reason to have in his heart any ill-feelings whatever against anyone - such ill-feeling, like every other evil, is the work of the devil; the Christian must only have love in his heart; and as love cannot think of evil, he cannot have any ill-feeling against others. For instance, I must not think that anyone else is evil or proud without having positive reasons to think so, or I must not think that it will make him proud if I show him respect, or that if I forgive him he will again offend me and will mock at me. We must not let evil in any form nestle in our heart; but evil generally appears in too many forms."   St. John of Kronstadt


"It is not possible to correct yourself rightly if you do not recognize the evil hidden in your heart and the calamities that proceed from it. An unrecognized disease remains untreated. The beginning of health is to know your disease, and the beginning of blessedness is to know your misfortune and wretchedness. For who having recognized his illness does not seek healing, and who knowing his misfortune does not seek deliverance from it?"    St. Tikhon of Zadonsk

"When the foolish thought of counting up any of your good works enters into your head, immediately correct your fault and rather count up your sins, your continual and innumerable offences against the All-merciful and Righteous Master, and you will find that their number is as the sand of the sea, whilst your virtues in comparison with them are as nothing."     St. John of Kronstadt
“The Law of the Church is to give oneself to what is given not to seek one’s own.” Fr. Alexander Schmemann
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5 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2009 - 4:06PM #40
Godgirl
Posts: 973
"you know my beliefs about that, so I really don't want to discuss this, but I love you and value you as a friend."
Thanks for that comment that realy helps.



TMarie you on the other hand are not helping. Of course i see my own sins, i admited it upfront didnt i? When someone who has a problem with drinking comes and asks for help...do you treat them the same way as you are treating me now? Of course you dont. So i come along with a problem asking for a solution (I have already admited my problem unlike my friend) and all you can do is bash me.
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