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Switch to Forum Live View "Religious" Hate Speech
5 years ago  ::  Sep 08, 2009 - 11:06PM #11
Solidgranit.com
Posts: 305

I do have to ask, are the progressive christians here saying the man shouldn't believe the way he does or that he simply went too far?  My concern is, even though I disagree and believe people to be wrong on many issues, and will even say so, it doesn't mean I'd legally condemn anyone for expessing or promulgating an opinion.  I don't agree with the KKK but they have every right to express their point of view to whomever they choose.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 09, 2009 - 6:15PM #12
Sadishappy
Posts: 18

Sep 5, 2009 -- 12:45AM, spudette wrote:


I agree, JD. It seems to me that the more you want to legislate, the more you abrogate someone's rights. As Christians, are we not supposed to point out sin? but the minute soneone does that, he/she is accused of hate speech. I was thinking that maybe some people should be more careful than they are about how they point out sin. The "baseball bat" approach surely isn't the best way to help a brother or sister see that they are on the wrong path, but then I've heard people speak very kindly and lovingly to people, and still be accused of "hate speech". I can't help wondering what they'd do to Jesus if He were here today. Remember how He used to rebuke certain people?





The important thing to note with Jesus was that He was very careful in pointing out sin to the 'sinner'.  The woman at the well, the rich young ruler, the blind man...etc etc.  He never publicly berated them.


His harsh words publicly were directed toward the religious, those who thought they were righteous!  The Pharasees for example....


So you bring up a good queston!  :-)


 

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 10, 2009 - 1:39AM #13
Solidgranit.com
Posts: 305

Sep 9, 2009 -- 5:33PM, Kevinponeill wrote:


Sep 8, 2009 -- 11:06PM, Solidgranit.com wrote:


I do have to ask, are the progressive Christians here saying the man shouldn't believe the way he does or that he simply went too far?  My concern is, even though I disagree and believe people to be wrong on many issues, and will even say so, it doesn't mean I'd legally condemn anyone for expressing or promulgating an opinion.  I don't agree with the KKK but they have every right to express their point of view to whomever they choose.




No.  The progressive Christians here are not recommending the initial poster's suggestion that we make certain speech illegal.


However, Beliefnet can exclude certain types of speech, since they own the platform.  If the racists want to express their POV, they can start their own Forum, using their own technical platforms.


Freedom of Speech is a Constitutional right; but that does not mean that I (or Beliefnet) need to supply the means for anyone to reach a broad audience.




Fair enough, I just read through some posts and was worrying...

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 28, 2009 - 7:06AM #14
Spiritual_teacher_writer
Posts: 22

As much as I dislike any form of hate speech, I have to agree that freedom of expression actually serves to reduce it.  For example, Germany forbids neo-Nazi speech, which only encouraged the movement.  If the US forbids free speech, it allows hate mongering groups to have a sense of persecution and validity: adding fuel to the fire.  However, when it is permitted, rational people ignoring them and/or presenting the opposite views openly seems to be the most effective response.

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2009 - 6:20PM #15
Intotheblue
Posts: 265

Nov 28, 2009 -- 7:06AM, Spiritual_teacher_writer wrote:


If the US forbids free speech, it allows hate mongering groups to have a sense of persecution and validity: adding fuel to the fire. 




That's what I was thinking. Also, I've noticed something about human pscyhology when it comes to this... If you censor someone, they're going to feel like you're threatened by them, which only strengthens their belief that they are right.


For example I recently visited a message board where there was a lot of heated political discussion, with several extremist conservative members. You can flag posts as offensive there, and the moderator will review it, and if they agree it's inappropriate (against the Terms of Service - threatening, nasty, racist, gives personal information, and so forth), they will remove it. If this happens enough times with one member, they'll delete that account. Unfortunately they're not very good about monitoring members, so if you get deleted, you can just make a new account. There are a few trolls there who just make accounts over and over and over, and they get satisfaction from being deleted, because they know it means they've successfully upset someone, and that's what they crave. They say having their posts deleted just means we know they're right, and we don't want anyone to hear the truth, so we censor them. It's twisted logic, but an outsider/newcomer might hear that and think it's true (without knowing what a nasty person the troll is).


I think the same thing would happen with hate speech. If no one really knew anything about the KKK because we banned them from preaching their beliefs, and you met a Klan member, you might be curious to know what they think, and feel sorry for them not being able to express their beliefs. It does make them look like the victim, and the forbidden/taboo is always so enticing to human beings, so it really does just exacerbate the problem.


The only way to fight darkness is with light. The only way to stop hate is with love. Not with brute force or oppression. As Friederich Nietzsche said, "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that, in the process, he does not become a monster."


That said, another part of me sure does wish we could censor it. We censor it when it incites physical violence, but what about when it causes deep psychological harm? I think that is far worse than physical harm. But I know it's a slippery slope... Where would you draw the line? And of course people would abuse it and claim to be emotionally damaged by something, just to shut up their opponent. So yeah it's not exactly feasible. Personally I just try to avoid hate speech at all cost. I never watch FOX News (actually I don't watch the news in general, but especially ones like that), I don't watch shows like Jerry Springer, I don't linger on message boards that have a lot of trolls, I don't click on threads if I know the topic will invite hate speech (such as topics about minorities, abortion, etc)... Fortunately Beliefnet does have their forums divided up, which makes it so much easier to do this. The people who like to fight and debate and insult each other can have a bloodbath in the 'debate' forums, and the rest of us can have calm reasonable discussions in places like this. :)

Namaste.

.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~.~*~

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

"Be the change you wish to see in the world."

"It is not our differences that divide us, but our inability to accept and celebrate those differences."
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 14, 2009 - 5:38AM #16
Dostojevsky
Posts: 7,863

Aug 24, 2009 -- 12:04AM, jd123 wrote:


Regarding the minister in Sweden let's be honest. He wasn't sent to court for hate speech. He was sent to court for daring to speak out against the popular culture. Whether you or I disagree with him or not, we know that is the truth. If he made the same statements against heterosexual fornicators or divorcees, no one would pay any attention.



Well said** There are groups that impose their view that you are not allowed to voice your opinion. Reading EU constitution, you would think Germany must be on another continent. All that freedom of speech and expression yet some are imprisoned because they question holocaust. There's no threat to violence no hate speech.

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5 years ago  ::  Dec 14, 2009 - 2:42PM #17
LeahOne
Posts: 16,571

"All that freedom of speech and expression yet some are imprisoned because they question holocaust. There's no threat to violence no hate speech."


They "question" a very well-documented ingtent by the Nazis to commit genocide.  That's not 'questioning':  it's DENYING the basis of the Nazi crimes against humanity.  It's seeking to rewrite history to exonerate the criminals.


While some may not think it's 'violence' or 'hate speech' - those who were turned into ashes on the wind, whose families have not even a date of death to memorialize them, would disagree. 


The violence to them, by the millions, was real and deliberate.  And to deny that is akin to doing it all over again.

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5 years ago  ::  Dec 14, 2009 - 5:00PM #18
Roodog
Posts: 10,168

The Jewish Bible commands that same sex activity be punished by death like adultery, murder and practicing Paganism.


The New Testament declares That the aforementioned are sins which will be judged by God with utmost severity.


Tell me then, given the Bible's harsh assessment of such activity, should the Bible be banned as Hate Literature?

For those who have faith, no explanation is neccessary.
For those who have no faith, no explanation is possible.

St. Thomas Aquinas

If one turns his ear from hearing the Law, even his prayer is an abomination. Proverbs 28:9
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5 years ago  ::  Dec 14, 2009 - 10:20PM #19
Stardove
Posts: 15,961

Host Note:  Just a reminder about this forum.


Please note that  is a Faith Community for like minded Progressive Christians.


If you do not consider yourself a Progressive Christian then this is not the forum to post in.


If you wish to have a discussion with Progressive Christians then please go to the Discuss Progressive Christianity. 


Thanks Host Progressive Christians ~ Stardove


 


 

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The sun rises every morning and sheds light, vanquishing the night's darkness. The rooster also rises every morning only, unlike the sun, he simply makes noise. But the darkness of the night is dispelled by sunshine, not by the rooster's crowing.The world can use more light and less noise. Where I can, I want to be light.

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