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Switch to Forum Live View The "True Church" and the "False Prophet"
7 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2008 - 10:42PM #11
Quelle
Posts: 334
Anesis:  You asked, "Quelle, I'm wondering why you think that the resurrection and judgment will take place at the end of this millennium. The Bible says that even Jesus does not know the hour of his return. If he doesn't even know, why do you assume to?"

I am apologetic about opportunity the for misinterpreting my sentence grammer. I did not mean to place a timeframe on the Millenium reign of Christ. Many teachings are the 'just' are resurrected at the start of the Millenium and the 'unjust' at the end of that Millenium. When I spoke of "this millenium", I was referring to the 1000 year Millenium reign of Christ, not any particular millenium pre-known by mankind.

Perhaps, your misreading of my thoughts places the 1000 year reign, as this current millenium, by 'divine revelation' on your part. Although, the timeframe is biblically stated as being only known by the Father, seems as events unfold some others should be reasonably sure that Millenium Reign of Christ has started or is near.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 03, 2008 - 11:47PM #12
Anesis
Posts: 1,543
My apologies. Thank you for clarifying that.
An
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2008 - 11:56AM #13
Elijah
Posts: 668
St Matthew 23;24 Ye blind guides, (Preachers) which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Which church do you think got it right? That is swallowing a camel.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2008 - 3:10PM #14
Apishapa
Posts: 276
Anesis   

Bless you!   

When I read or study Scripture, I always look for the message---What is Our Lord saying to me, or asking of me? 

Praise God!
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2008 - 3:23PM #15
BKW1
Posts: 120
Hi Quelle. 

I think your confusion stems from a lack of understanding of how the ancient Hebrews recorded time.  They did not measure days from midnight to midnight as we do today.  Days were calculated from sundown to sundown.  This tradition is maintained even today in many Jewish congregations.  For example, Orthodox and Conservative Jews will not get married on Saturday until the sun sets because it is still the Sabbath for them which started at sundown on Friday (which is when the first Sabbath services are held). 

Jesus died at around 3:00 on Friday (this is day 1).  If you remember, there was a rush to get him into the tomb before the Sabbath because they couldn't bury him on that day.  There was such a rush because the Sabbath started at sundown on Friday so it began only a few hours after 3:00.  The second day was from Friday at sundown until Saturday at sundown.  The third day was from Saturday at sundown until the resurrection on Sunday morning. 

There were three days albeit not three 24 hour periods.  The mere concept of a 24 hour day would have been foreign to the ancient Hebrews.  Even for us, in this day and age, a day need not be considered 24 hours to be considered a day.  For example, if a baby is born 11:59 pm, January 4, 2008 he is still born today even though he only lived 1 minute of today.  The important events in this child’s life tied to age (e.g. be old enough to drive, vote, etc) are measured from the day of his birth, not the hour.

Hope this clears things up.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2008 - 7:09PM #16
Quelle
Posts: 334
[QUOTE=BKW1;187537]Hi Quelle. 

I think your confusion stems from a lack of understanding of how the ancient Hebrews recorded time.  They did not measure days from midnight to midnight as we do today.  Days were calculated from sundown to sundown.  This tradition is maintained even today in many Jewish congregations.  For example, Orthodox and Conservative Jews will not get married on Saturday until the sun sets because it is still the Sabbath for them which started at sundown on Friday (which is when the first Sabbath services are held). 

Jesus died at around 3:00 on Friday (this is day 1).  If you remember, there was a rush to get him into the tomb before the Sabbath because they couldn't bury him on that day.  There was such a rush because the Sabbath started at sundown on Friday so it began only a few hours after 3:00.  The second day was from Friday at sundown until Saturday at sundown.  The third day was from Saturday at sundown until the resurrection on Sunday morning. 

There were three days albeit not three 24 hour periods.  The mere concept of a 24 hour day would have been foreign to the ancient Hebrews.  Even for us, in this day and age, a day need not be considered 24 hours to be considered a day.  For example, if a baby is born 11:59 pm, January 4, 2008 he is still born today even though he only lived 1 minute of today.  The important events in this child’s life tied to age (e.g. be old enough to drive, vote, etc) are measured from the day of his birth, not the hour.

Hope this clears things up.[/QUOTE]
There is that conventional wisdom of a "slight-of-hand"  magician again, IMO. Others believe Jesus died in the afternoon (perhaps 3 PM) of the Passover on a Wednesday, as there was a hurry to get Him in the tomb prior to the beginning of the weeklong "feast of the unleaven bread" beginning on Thursday. A late Saturday (afternoon or evening) resurrection would then be precisely three days in the tomb, which you can measure from "sundown to sundown" if you wish.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2008 - 8:02PM #17
Anesis
Posts: 1,543
"Others believe Jesus died in the afternoon (perhaps 3 PM) of the Passover on a Wednesday, ..."

I don't know what "others" believe this. I have never heard of it, and certainly don't buy into it. The Bible says in Mark 15:42 that it was "preparation" day; that is, the day before the Sabbath. Sabbath starts at sundown on Friday and goes until sundown on Saturday. Luke 23:54 says "It was Preparation Day and the Sabbath was about to begin." Matthew and John also mention that it was Preparation Day. I do not think there is any doubt about the day of the crucifixion and burial being on the Friday (Preparation Day), between 3pm and sundown.
An
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2008 - 8:32PM #18
Quelle
Posts: 334
Anesis,

My understanding is the Hebrew (Jewish) faith of that day included "annual Sabbaths", that we might consider similar to our holidays, except the Hebrew annual Sabbaths were intended to be instructive in their faith ( and also redemptive). Further, Christ criticized the priests of those times for making all Sabbaths a burden to observe, rather than a 'joy' as intended by the Holy Father (God).

As the (likely true) story goes, the Feast of the Unleavening Bread was an annual Sabbath. The significance is 'Leavened Bread" is puffed up (by yeast, leavening), much like our "human pride". Unleavened bread would then signify "humility" and "resolve" to obey God. This act against Christ, the Son of God, was wished by the Jews to be completed before the beginning, at sundown (on Wednesday) of this annual Sabbath of humility, which was the annual Feast of the Unleavened Bread.

THANKYOU for your humility in approaching this subject.
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2008 - 10:03PM #19
Unitedbygrace
Posts: 189
[QUOTE=Quelle;184958]THE TRUTH SEEMS TO BE: Jesus was crucified on the day of the Jewish Passover holy day, which in that year turned out to have been a Wednesday, and resurrected on the following Saturday evening, which is three days. He was then seen later on Sunday, after His grave was found empty on Sunday morning.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you Quelle.  As a matter of fact, you can trace the days leading to this through the scriptures!  One thing I would change that you say, it was not the Passover day, but the day of preparation, which is the day before.  He had to be removed from the cross before the Holy Day (Passover). 

You can actually walk the last week of Christ's life through the accounts of the scripture.  I have posted it here on B'net a couple times before, on the old boards.  It is alot of information (and study), using the gospels and various accounts along with OT understanding of feast days, holy days, etc.  I will lay some of the Preparation Day out for you.

The day of Preparation was Nisan 14.  (This day is the day before the Passover (See Jo 19:14).  The four gospels all agree that Jesus was "laid in the sepulchre on the Preparation Day." (See Mt 27:60-62; Mk 15:42; Luke 23:54; Jo 19:31, 42).

Nisan 14 actually began at sunset on Tuesday and this Nisan 14 is the day we know with some certainty our Lord was crucified.  He was taken off the cross before sunset on Wednesay, which is the start of Nisan 15--Passover.  This sabath was a "high Day" and therefore not a regular Saturday sabbath (See Jon19:31).

Jesus rose after 3 literal 24 hour periods.  This would have had the resurrection take place some time after the Saturday sabbath was complete, or Saturday evening after 6pm.  Mat 28 says "in the end of the Sabbath" and this word for Sabbath is actually a plural, showing it would better read "in the end of the sabbaths."  We already know more than one sabbath took place over that three day period of time, according to scripture.

With these facts in place and a few others I did not mention, you can go backwards in scripture and fill in the gaps to the last week of the Lord's life.  For instance, Jo 12:1 takes us to "six days before the passover" or the 9th of Nisan.  Mt 26:2 & Mk 14:1 take us to the 13th day of Nisan as they both state, "After two days is the passover."  Mt 28:1 says, "the first day of the week"  and so it was from Saturday sunset through Sunday sunset.  This fixes the days of the week for us.

As for the "three days and three nights" Jesus spoke of:

Three days is a Hebrew idiom for any part of three days, but when you add "and three nights" it ceases to be an idiom and becomes a literal statement of fact. 

This is how we know creation took 6 literal days; God always says and the evening and the morning were the first day, etc.  Since the Hebrew day began at sunset, the "day' was reckoned from one sunset to another, i.e. the 12 hours of the day (Jo 11:9).  So when a "day and evening" were cited, it represented a 24 hour day.  There are many more examples in scripture to look at as well.

Jesus did mean for us to understand three, 24 hour days.  Great study!
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7 years ago  ::  Jan 04, 2008 - 8:02PM #20
Anesis
Posts: 1,543
"Others believe Jesus died in the afternoon (perhaps 3 PM) of the Passover on a Wednesday, ..."

I don't know what "others" believe this. I have never heard of it, and certainly don't buy into it. The Bible says in Mark 15:42 that it was "preparation" day; that is, the day before the Sabbath. Sabbath starts at sundown on Friday and goes until sundown on Saturday. Luke 23:54 says "It was Preparation Day and the Sabbath was about to begin." Matthew and John also mention that it was Preparation Day. I do not think there is any doubt about the day of the crucifixion and burial being on the Friday (Preparation Day), between 3pm and sundown.
An
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