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Locked: Woman Priests
6 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 3:58PM #1
Kate123
Posts: 541
Two woman Roman Catholic priests were ordained in my city only a few weeks ago. Bishop Burke threatened excommunication the moment they became ordained. He thinks kicking them out undoes the example they set. But really his reaction only strengthens the resolve of many women on this topic.

Several weeks ago my own priest gave a sermon where he declared loudly, “Racism is a sin! Sexism is a sin!” He told a story about a woman who prayed for there to be more priests. He asked the woman if she encouraged her son to become a priest. She told him ‘no’. He talked about the woman went against her own prayers. We all should be praying for our sons to become priest.

I wanted to scream at him. “WE SHOULD PRAY THAT OUR DAUGHTERS BECOME PRIEST AS WELL!” After all. . . Sexism is a sin. I wondered if my priest even realized that he played into an inherently sexist system and encouraged this polarization by not including young females into the potential future of priesthood.

What kind of hell would occur if woman took the traditional male role during mass? Why do people fight so hard to maintain the status quo? What would Jesus do?
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 4:11PM #2
Kate123
Posts: 541
“. . . God (or nature) did not intend man and woman to possess the same likeness and the same potentiality.” Lord Buddha said, “It is not possible for a woman to become a Buddha but it is quite possible for a man to become so.” ---
Buddhadasa Bhikkhu in Christianity and Buddhism.

This is what people get sick of hearing. Bhikkhu had defined 'woman' in a way that will not allow women to grow. This is disrespect.

As a woman. . . I have no desire to become male. I just don't want a person telling me what I can and cannot do based on my femaleness.

That's foolishness.

And I think likewise. . . men don’t want to be female. They just want to be what they want to be. And all power to them. As long as they aren’t trying to shove me into a pre-defined slot.

And I think by and large in our society as well as in most other societies, it is the women who bear the large brunt of the pre-defined roles. And the roles sometimes suck.

One doesn’t have to look too far to figure this out. How many female Roman Catholic Priests are there. (Seven, I think. But of course they got excommunicated.) How many Thai female monks are there? (Eight, I met number seven the other day.)

If you shelter a woman from the light. . . she cannot grow.

And her growth does not mean that she will choke men out. It means the garden will become more beautiful.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 4:13PM #3
tawonda
Posts: 4,367
What Jesus has already done is to call gifted women, over and over again, into pastoral roles -- even in religious contexts where they dare not call what they do "pastoral care"; where they have to circumvent church hierarchies in various ways in order to  do what they know they're called to do.

I am fortunate in belonging to a denomination that ordains women.

I also happen to know, via the Internet, a female, married RC priest -- obviously ordained "unofficially" -- who pastors a congregation while working as an academic. She's a caring, faithful person, and her parishoners are lucky to have her in a leadership position.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 4:47PM #4
Geocorona
Posts: 302
...if your head offends thee, cut it off...

Eventually, there will be a second Reformation. Maybe it will work within the RCC, as Luther intended the original one, or maybe it will just result in a big walkout.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 5:11PM #5
TalithaKuom
Posts: 556
Shabbat Shalom!
One night at dinner, my grandfather said, "Jesus was a a man. If I were on the Church commitee, I would not hire a woman-pastor."
Immediately my grandmother bent down and asked, "Why not?"
He shut up.
This is a tough issue for me. On the one hand, I believe priest/pastor must be chosen by God, must be called to that vocation.
On the other hand, darn it all! women are just as capable preaching as men.
The early Church woman-preachers (no, not in the Dan Brown sense). Phoebe, for example. In the OT, we have the examples of Miriam, Deborah and Huldah to go by.
Peace of Christ!
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 5:12PM #6
TalithaKuom
Posts: 556
Pardon, I meant the early Church had woman-preachers.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 7:33PM #7
Mostyn32
Posts: 2,941
Like Tawonda, I am fortunate in that I belong to a denomination that ordains women to the priesthood, and has been doing so for the past 29 years. Their gift to the church has been great.  We are told in scripture that "in Christ there is no male or female"  so I don't understand why women have been cut off from exercising their priestly gifts to benefit other denominations. By the way, Tawonda, you are no doubt aware that the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Canada is headed by a woman, Bishop Susan, and she is superb. One of our honorary assistants at the Cathedral is a Lutheran pastor and he is Susan's assistant and the Ecumenical Officer for  the ELCIC. The Manitoba/Northwestern Ontario Synod of ELCIC also has a woman as bishop - Elaine is also a great gift, both to the ELCIC and to the Anglican Church. We have several combined Lutheran/Anglican parishes, so Susan and Elaine work very closely with their counterparts in the Anglican Church of Canada. We also have an Anglican Parish which has a Lutheran (female) pastor, and a Lutheran parish with an Anglican (male) priest as leaders.  Both the Anglian and Lutheran Churches benefit greatly by the crossover ministries of both male and female priests.

Nowhere does the Bible specify that a priest has to stand up to go to the bathroom!
"God is no captious sophister, eager to trip us up whenever we say amiss, but a courteous tutor, ready to amend what, in our weakness or our ignorance, we say ill, and to make the most of what we say aright."  from 'A Learned Discourse on Justification', a sermon by Richard Hooker (1554-1600).
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 7:55PM #8
ToujoursDan
Posts: 1,065
I am embarrassed to admit that I was a little hesitant (for many of the reasons I am sure will be aired here later) when I encountered my first women priests but, can't imagine belonging to a church that didn't have them. Women clergy enrich the Christians experience and witness to an amazing degree.
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6 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 8:50PM #9
kollo
Posts: 4,064
[QUOTE=TalithaKuom;106322]Phoebe, for example.


Phoebe was a helper, whose assistance can hardly have included teaching, in view of Paul's view.

In the OT, we have the examples of Miriam


MIriam was a prophetess, who spoke only as was revealed to her, not teaching.

Deborah


Deborah was a prophetess who became a leader at a time when Israel were in disobedience of God. Her leadership was a rebuke to Israel, because they had no men to lead.

and Huldah


Again, Huldah was a prophetess, who did not have a teaching role.

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6 years ago  ::  Nov 30, 2007 - 8:59PM #10
tawonda
Posts: 4,367
A prophet is by definition a teacher.
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