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3 years ago  ::  Jan 22, 2015 - 1:27AM #1
withwonderingawe
Posts: 6,091
Researchers say the new scrap of spiritual papyrus is a portion of the the Gospel of Mark, the second chapter of the New Testament. The gospel scroll fragment dates to approximately 90 AD. 

Read more: www.upi.com/Science_News/2015/01/21/Olde...


which means it's a copy of something before so it's taking right back to the beginning 
Wise men still seek him.
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 22, 2015 - 2:03AM #2
Namchuck
Posts: 12,199

Jan 22, 2015 -- 1:27AM, withwonderingawe wrote:

Researchers say the new scrap of spiritual papyrus is a portion of the the Gospel of Mark, the second chapter of the New Testament. The gospel scroll fragment dates to approximately 90 AD. 

Read more: www.upi.com/Science_News/2015/01/21/Olde...


which means it's a copy of something before so it's taking right back to the beginning 



You might have jumped the gun a little too early on this business, wwa, especially your unjustified description of the find as a "spiritual papyrus". If you were familiar with the world of document research, you'd likely know how often these 'discoveries' have the ability to end up being bad news for the faithful. The date of the scrap has yet to be confirmed.  


And do try to keep in mind that the Gospel of Mark, for example, never mentions the resurrection - the verses in Mark that talk about it is a well-known interpolation - and is essentially a docetic document, which is why the author of Matthew later attempted to excise all docetic references from that gospel.


So, if it takes us "right back at the beginning" as you mistakenly suggest (90 AD is still well after the Jesus tale was supposedly enacted), then it poses a significant problem for those who have psychologically invested in a belief in Jesus' physical resurrection. 


The gospel of Mark, among a significant number of other problems, also contains several egregious errors regarding Palestinian geography and Jewish laws and customs, showing that its information could not have come from any Jewish source.


 


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3 years ago  ::  Jan 22, 2015 - 11:20AM #3
withwonderingawe
Posts: 6,091

I have a Barclay Bible which gives three different endings, that’s okay. Some how the last page got lost and God helped get all the right info in there including;


“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”


My Evangelical friends hate it.


The thing is there is nothing in there which teaches false doctrine and I can only guess it was drawn from older reliable sources.


I wish this was in there; it’s found between Mark 16:14 and 15 and only in one codex which dates from the 4th century.


"Later he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were sitting at the table; and he upbraided them for their lack of faith and stubbornness, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. And they excused themselves, saying, 'This age of lawlessness and unbelief is under Satan, who does not allow the truth and power of God to prevail over the unclean things of the spirits. Therefore reveal your righteousness now'--thus they spoke to Christ. And Christ replied to them, 'The term of years of Satan's power has been fulfilled, but other terrible things draw near. And for those who have sinned I was handed over to death, that they may return to the truth and sin no more, that they may inherit the spiritual and imperishable glory of righteousness that is in heaven'." (NRSV).


It’s an addition to that meeting spoken of in Luke 28. I can see why someone removed it because it’s talking about the apostasy or ‘age of lawlessness”. Barclay translates 2 Thess 2:3 as “the lawless one”.


“Therefore reveal your righteousness now'“ they’re asking for his second coming


“'The term of years of Satan's power has been fulfilled,” with his atonement


“but other terrible things draw near” the apostasy


When one reads some of the different letters this coming apostasy is clear;


“John writes Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” 1 John 2


www.religioustolerance.org/mark_16.htm

Wise men still seek him.
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2015 - 1:51AM #4
Namchuck
Posts: 12,199

Jan 22, 2015 -- 11:20AM, withwonderingawe wrote:


I have a Barclay Bible which gives three different endings, that’s okay. Some how the last page got lost and God helped get all the right info in there including;


The verses at the end of the Gospel of Mark dealing with the resurrection are not found in any of the earliest manuscripts of Mark. It's a well-known interpolation consistent with the fabrication of the Christ myth, which hardly makes it "okay" at all.


And then there are all the other problems with Mark which believers, heads firmly embeded in the comforting sands of belief-inspired ignorance, simply ignore. 


When one reads some of the different letters this coming apostasy is clear;


That view is simply insupportable.


First off, most of the "letters" you refer to are also well-known forgeries, and given that there was no unified 'Church' or doctrine to begin with, any notion of a forthcoming "apostasy" is sheer nonsense. Every sect and denomination of Christianity from the outset - as we now know from many hundreds of 'Christian' documents that predate any of the gospels and most of the supposed "letters" - was riven with doctrinal differences and schisms, each accusing the others of apostasy. The disputes bordering on undeniable hatred even between the so-called apostles is referenced in the New Testament, but you ain't gonna hear about any of this in the gospel doctrine class at your local Mormon chapel on a Sunday.  :)


What one finds in movements like Mormonism is a reading back into early Christian origins, an alternative 'history' that simply ignores a mountain of modern scholarship that identifies that the situation was anything but what the Mormons claim it was. 


To make matters far worse, no Christian, let alone a Mormon, can even advance a good case that Jesus of Nazareth even existed, let alone that he was the purveyor of extraordinry feats of capricious magic and a secret Mormon after all.  







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3 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2015 - 3:56AM #5
withwonderingawe
Posts: 6,091

"And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!


For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father" D&C 76



That's enough

Wise men still seek him.
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2015 - 4:06AM #6
Namchuck
Posts: 12,199

Jan 23, 2015 -- 3:56AM, withwonderingawe wrote:


"And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!


For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father" D&C 76



That's enough




That would certainly be enough for the gullible and the credulous who have always held little regard for the truth and who much prefer the comfort and solace of mere belief. Smile


But for those who prefer truth rather than mere belief (belief being the tacit acknowledgement that one doesn't know), the fact remains that the Bible is a chaotically cobbled together anthology of disjointed documents, composed, revised, translated, distorted, 'improved' by hundreds of anonymous authors, editors, and copyists, unknown to us and mostly unknown to each other. 


It's value lies in its being a window into the ancient world, including its mythological world view(s), its primitive beliefs, and many of its backward practices, not failing to mention the nature of its barbaric God.


Proselytizing your preferred brand of misrepresentation of the Bible is hardly going to impress any readers of this thread, wwa.  Smile

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2015 - 3:46PM #7
Namchuck
Posts: 12,199

The so-called discovery of a scrap of the gospel of Mark has turned out not to be so "new" after all, and the equally so-called 'discoverers' are keeping the mysterious fragment very close to their chests. 


In the meantime, valuable Egyptian relics and artifacts are being destroyed by Christians in their fanatical and desperate attempts to find anything that might substantiate their preferred superstition. 



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3 years ago  ::  Jan 30, 2015 - 8:34PM #8
teilhard
Posts: 53,304

Any and every archaeological "Dig" has some destructive Aspects, so needs to be carried forward with appropriate Care ... I don't know -- but assume -- that the Paper Mache' Masks thus dis-assembled are very carefully documented in the Process ...

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 31, 2015 - 3:45PM #9
Namchuck
Posts: 12,199

Jan 30, 2015 -- 8:34PM, teilhard wrote:


Any and every archaeological "Dig" has some destructive Aspects, so needs to be carried forward with appropriate Care ... I don't know -- but assume -- that the Paper Mache' Masks thus dis-assembled are very carefully documented in the Process ...





While every archaeological dig might have certain "destructive aspects", wanton destruction in the hope of finding a Christian relic should be regarded as intolerable. It would be akin to pulling down a mesoamerican temple in the hope of finding a Nephite baptismal font. 

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 31, 2015 - 11:40PM #10
teilhard
Posts: 53,304

As I understand it, the paper mache' burial masks include a treasure trove of ancient document fragments, not only Christian texts ...


Jan 31, 2015 -- 3:45PM, Namchuck wrote:


Jan 30, 2015 -- 8:34PM, teilhard wrote:


Any and every archaeological "Dig" has some destructive Aspects, so needs to be carried forward with appropriate Care ... I don't know -- but assume -- that the Paper Mache' Masks thus dis-assembled are very carefully documented in the Process ...





While every archaeological dig might have certain "destructive aspects", wanton destruction in the hope of finding a Christian relic should be regarded as intolerable. It would be akin to pulling down a mesoamerican temple in the hope of finding a Nephite baptismal font. 





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