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2 years ago  ::  Feb 25, 2012 - 7:16PM #1
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,368

Iama:  The foundation for The Bible is Genesis.  All basic Bible doctrines begin in Genesis.

The existence of God (morallity personified), the origin of the universe (matter, space, time), the origin of the Earth, the origin of material things, the origin of plant-life (physical), the origin of animal life (physical + soul / consciousness), the origin of humans (physical + soul / consciousness + spirit), the origin of evil, the origin of sin, the promise of a Savior from sin-guilt-penalty of death / separation from God, the origin of sacrifices for sin, the origin of death, the origin of suffering, the origin of sickness, the origin of murder, the origin of false religions, the origin of rebellion against God, the origin of language, the origin of nations, the origin of the nation of Israel, the origin of Messiah, the origin of The Ten Commandments, the origin of The Law, etc.

Genesis Verse-by-Verse


A new online tool to study Genesis



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The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
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"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
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Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
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2 years ago  ::  Feb 25, 2012 - 8:58PM #2
Namchuck
Posts: 11,269

Feb 25, 2012 -- 7:16PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Iama:  The foundation for The Bible is Genesis.  All basic Bible doctrines begin in Genesis.

The existence of God (morallity personified), the origin of the universe (matter, space, time), the origin of the Earth, the origin of material things, the origin of plant-life (physical), the origin of animal life (physical + soul / consciousness), the origin of humans (physical + soul / consciousness + spirit), the origin of evil, the origin of sin, the promise of a Savior from sin-guilt-penalty of death / separation from God, the origin of sacrifices for sin, the origin of death, the origin of suffering, the origin of sickness, the origin of murder, the origin of false religions, the origin of rebellion against God, the origin of language, the origin of nations, the origin of the nation of Israel, the origin of Messiah, the origin of The Ten Commandments, the origin of The Law, etc.


Genesis Verse-by-Verse


A new online tool to study Genesis



.




Genesis is completely mythological, so any study of it is the study of mythology. Such a study might have value in and of itself.


The whole Bible presents us with a basic picture of the gradual accumulation of legends and stories.

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2 years ago  ::  Feb 25, 2012 - 11:08PM #3
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,368

Feb 25, 2012 -- 8:58PM, Namchuck wrote:



iama:  The foundation for The Bible is Genesis.  All basic Bible doctrines begin in Genesis.

The existence of God (morallity personified), the origin of the universe (matter, space, time), the origin of the Earth, the origin of material things, the origin of plant-life (physical), the origin of animal life (physical + soul / consciousness), the origin of humans (physical + soul / consciousness + spirit), the origin of evil, the origin of sin, the promise of a Savior from sin-guilt-penalty of death / separation from God, the origin of sacrifices for sin, the origin of death, the origin of suffering, the origin of sickness, the origin of murder, the origin of false religions, the origin of rebellion against God, the origin of language, the origin of nations, the origin of the nation of Israel, the origin of Messiah, the origin of The Ten Commandments, the origin of The Law, etc.


Genesis Verse-by-Verse


A new online tool to study Genesis


Namchuck: Genesis is completely mythological, so any study of it is the study of mythology. Such a study might have value in and of itself.


The whole Bible presents us with a basic picture of the gradual accumulation of legends and stories.



iama: No!


Genesis is recorded human with God-interaction-history!



.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
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Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
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2 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2012 - 3:42PM #4
Namchuck
Posts: 11,269


iama: No!


Genesis is recorded human with God-interaction-history!




It is nothing of the sort, which is why you're completely unable to advance any evidence in support of your extravagant claims.


The ancient writers of the two contradictory creation stories in the Book of Genesis had no conception whatsoever of the true nature of the universe, the Earth, man's relationship to nature, nor humanity's  true historical context.


All these things had to wait thousands of years to be discovered.

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2 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2012 - 11:11PM #5
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,368

Feb 26, 2012 -- 3:42PM, Namchuck wrote:



iama: No!


Genesis is recorded human with God-interaction-history!


Namchuck: It is nothing of the sort, which is why you're completely unable to advance any evidence in support of your extravagant claims.



iama:The Bible, itself, supports the claim which I made!


I exist in this Universe / Earth realm, BECAUSE our Creator-God created it, and specifically, because He created our human federal head, Adam and his wife Eve from Adam's "flesh and bones". Human history is VERY important with respect to the two Adams - Adam #1 and Adam #2.  We are sinners because of Adam #1, and we can become righteous because of Adam #2.  If God-Son hadn't incarnated into human history, conception to death and resurrection, we, human beings, COULDN'T be redeemed!  


Namchuck: The ancient writers of the two contradictory creation stories in the Book of Genesis...



iama: Genesis 1:1 to Genesis 2:4 is The Creation Account from our Creator-God's point of view from Day 1 to Day 7.  Genesis 2:5 begins an accounting of the exact same creation account, but is the expansion of the Creation as it deals with Adam and Eve. 


If you were to use the, Genesis 1-11 link, and scroll to Genesis 2:1, you would find the following article linked-to:


Genesis contradictions?


In Genesis chapter 2 the order of creation seems to be different to that in chapter 1 with the animals being created (2:19) after Adam (2:7). Doesn’t the Bible contradict itself here?


Namchuck: The ancient writers... had no conception whatsoever of the true nature of the universe, the Earth, man's relationship to nature, nor humanity's true historical context. All these things had to wait thousands of years to be discovered.



iama: What you are forgetting or denying or refusing to consider is the fact that the Author of the Creation account is our Creator-God, Himself, Christ Jesus, as recorded via God-Holy Spirit to a human recorder, possibly Adam, himself.  The human recorders DON'T HAVE to understand what they are recording, unless they are given to understand, supernaturally, at that time, by their supernatural Creator-God.


It is, still, true today, that we, humans don't really understand what took place at the time of The Creation.  And our Creator-God hasn't told anyone, either.


I don't know if you have ever entertained a mental picture of the Universe / Earth and all that in them is as an enclosed region.  Take your finger and trace an elipse or a rectangle - some shape - onto your desk top.  Imagine that that figure contains all that exists in the Universe / Earth included.  Then, allow your mind to consider that all that lies outside of that figure which you have drawn, as being a realm where our Creator-God exists in His eternity. Do you see that all of history which has existed past, present and future to us, is available to our Creator-God at all times.  Within the space, matter, time realm there is history which is moving from the future into the present and then into the past.  But, for our Creator-God, human / Universe / Earth history has been within that figure representing the Universe / Earth / including humans, in its final form: future, present and past.  It is finished!  Our Creator-God never has to wait for anything to be DISCOVERED!


And that is why / how our Creator-God can speak to human recorders and have them record prophetic utterances.  The future is already completed from our Creator-God's view point. That doesn't mean that Universe / Earth history has been dictatorially controlled by our Creator-God regarding each human will-choice, but that He is able to view what has been the human choices made throughout the whole of human-Universe-Earth-history.


The Bible is our Creator-God's supernaturally Authored recording of His interactions with a people through whom He chose to incarnate.


.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
.
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2 years ago  ::  Feb 26, 2012 - 11:21PM #6
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,368

Feb 25, 2012 -- 8:58PM, Namchuck wrote:



iama:  The foundation for The Bible is Genesis.  All basic Bible doctrines begin in Genesis.

The existence of God (morallity personified), the origin of the universe (matter, space, time), the origin of the Earth, the origin of material things, the origin of plant-life (physical), the origin of animal life (physical + soul / consciousness), the origin of humans (physical + soul / consciousness + spirit), the origin of evil, the origin of sin, the promise of a Savior from sin-guilt-penalty of death / separation from God, the origin of sacrifices for sin, the origin of death, the origin of suffering, the origin of sickness, the origin of murder, the origin of false religions, the origin of rebellion against God, the origin of language, the origin of nations, the origin of the nation of Israel, the origin of Messiah, the origin of The Ten Commandments, the origin of The Law, etc.


Genesis Verse-by-Verse


A new online tool to study Genesis


Namchuck: Genesis is completely mythological, so any study of it is the study of mythology. Such a study might have value in and of itself.


The whole Bible presents us with a basic picture of the gradual accumulation of legends and stories.



iama:  Christ Jesus, God-Son, incarnate, via God-Holy Spirit's inspired recording of The Bible validated that The Bible / Genesis is not mythological, but is the historical accounting of our Creator-God's "In the beginning" Creation, and His interactions with a specific people through whom He has given to us His revelation of Himself, and His description of humanity:


- who am I?


- why I am like I am?


- what is a human being?


- why I am here?


- why am I guilty


- why will I die?


- do I have a spirit which exists post-physical death


- where does my spirit-soul go post my physical death?


- how did I arrive on the scene?


- what is my Creator-God like?


- why was I created?


- ???


.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
.
Quick Reply
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2 years ago  ::  Feb 27, 2012 - 2:28AM #7
Namchuck
Posts: 11,269

Feb 26, 2012 -- 11:21PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Feb 25, 2012 -- 8:58PM, Namchuck wrote:



iama:  The foundation for The Bible is Genesis.  All basic Bible doctrines begin in Genesis.


Which is why biblical doctrines must be seen for what they truly are: stabs in the dark by primitive people who, among much else, understood little about the nature of the world or the true historical context of human beings.

The existence of God (morallity personified),


Balderdash! 


Not only is there insufficient evidence to justify belief in God, gods, or any other form of supernatural entity, there is now enough evidence to justify disbelieving in God, gods, or any other form of supernatural entity.


Furthermore, the major flaw in the argument that God's existence is "morality personified" is powerfully exposed in the argument that Plato made famous in the 'Euthyphro'. No believer yet has been able to refute it.


the origin of the universe (matter, space, time), the origin of the Earth, the origin of material things, the origin of plant-life (physical), the origin of animal life (physical + soul / consciousness), the origin of humans (physical + soul / consciousness + spirit),


Neither the Bible or the assertion of God's existence "explains" a thing, let alone the origin of the universe, the Earth, or life upon the planet. But we now do have some real explanations for many of these things accompanied by compelling evidence, and not one of these explanations requires or demands that one accept baroque and unjustified assumptions about any supernatural sky beings.


the origin of evil, the origin of sin, the promise of a Savior from sin-guilt-penalty of death / separation from God, the origin of sacrifices for sin, the orig


These are mythological themes that anyone who understands the real nature of life no longer needs.


iama:  Christ Jesus, God-Son, incarnate, via God-Holy Spirit's inspired recording of The Bible validated that The Bible / Genesis is not mythological, but is the historical accounting of our Creator-God's "In the beginning" Creation, and His interactions with a specific people through whom He has given to us His revelation of Himself, and His description of humanity:


It is almost wholly mythological. The Bible is undutibly the work of man, something that is testified to on almost every page. Scripture reflects the flawed cosmology of its age.


- who am I? Best answered by the modern sciences of biology, genetics, anthropology, archeaology, etc.


- why I am like I am? Again, best answered by an understanding of both biology and one's personal environment. We are the products of both nature and nurture.


- what is a human being? An evolved being who shares a common ancestor with all other living things.


- why I am here? Biologically speaking, you are here to eat, survive, and reproduce. These are the biological imperitives. But you also have an evolved psychological dimension that allows you a great deal of psychological freedom to choose your own psychological meaning(s). There is, despite what the religiose insist upon, no 'one-size-fits-all' meaning to life beyond the biological. 


- why am I guilty Any feelings of existential guilt will likely be the result of a religious conditioning that incorporates the pernicious and inane - and totally unjustified - Christian notion that you were born sick and that you have been commanded to be well.


- why will I die? Best understood once again in terms of our biology.  


- do I have a spirit which exists post-physical death Not only is there no evidence that you do have such a 'spirit', but abundant evidence that you likely do not. Furthermore, the mind is an effect of the brain. When the brain dies, our mind dies with it. Anyone who has experienced a human being suffering from advanced Alzheimer's disease, will understand this point fully. If the autonomic parts of the brain are not yet dead, all the higher functions of the brain have died, and the person has died with them. To suppose that the mind continues to exist is simply ludicrous.


- where does my spirit-soul go post my physical death? As far as the rather compelling evidence goes, no one survives the thermodynamic equilibrium of the body.


- how did I arrive on the scene? Randomly, and against most of the odds.


- what is my Creator-God like? Which one? Humans have invented so many of them. As there is not the slightest evidence that there is a 'Creator-God' of any sort (and a good deal of evidence which mitigates against the probability that there is such an entity) it would be best to move on to more fruitful preccupations.


- why was I created? There isn't any evidence that you were created, so why bother yourself with it?


- ???


As said before, God was once our best 'explanation' (but they weren't real explanations) for most of these things, but we now have vastly better one's. God is no longer an explanation for anything, but has become itself something that would need an insurmountable amount of explaining.


What one can readily acknowledge, though, is that religion is a repository for powerful wishful structures. The consequence of this truth is that religion is unlikely to go away soon. The failure to combat religious belief, the social penetration of religious institutions, and the ever-greening of wishful fantasy that is the heart of religion, have ensconced it in a kind of default position in many cultures, as if it were intellectually respectable, rather than meet for exposure as an enfeeblement of thought.


Religions long and terrible history of persecuting heretic, infidel, homosexual, and witches has demonstrated that it has failed to immunize against savagery and superstition, but it is a major cause of them!


As Herman Melville pungently wrote, 'Faith, like a jackal, feeds among the tombs, and even from these dead doubts she gathers her most vital hope'.




.





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2 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 5:23PM #8
amcolph
Posts: 17,153

Mar 7, 2012 -- 10:30AM, Rgurley4 wrote:




Good strategy...attack the Christ-followers Bible and you attack them.





What is the "Christ-followers Bible?"  What do you mean by that?  The Holy Scriptures with the unholy magical properties of literal inerrancy, perspicuity and self-interpretation atrributed to them?  the Holy Scriptures with the "Dispensations" driven into them like the nails into Christ's hands and feet?


Should we not attack the works of Satan wherever they are found?

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 6:32PM #9
Rgurley4
Posts: 8,576

What is the "Christ-followers Bible?"


"Christ-followers" =~Christian


"Bible" = any scholarly version ....using oldest availble and reliable manuscripts

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 8:21PM #10
amcolph
Posts: 17,153

Mar 7, 2012 -- 6:32PM, Rgurley4 wrote:


What is the "Christ-followers Bible?"


"Christ-followers" =~Christian


"Bible" = any scholarly version ....using oldest availble and reliable manuscripts




I'm not so sure.  Some of your other posts give me the impression that "Christ-follower" is like "Bible believer,"  a code word for Fundamentalist Evangelical.


Feb 24, 2012 -- 10:52AM, Rgurley4 wrote:



My Christ-following BELIEFS:


The Bible (Scripture) is the supreme authority when compared to other writings
and precepts. All of the ACTUAL WORDS therein were "Spirit Inspired", and "superintended" by God. The ~40 authors and their scribes recorded these words in "original manuscripts" which were without error.Systematic study of Scripture leads one to the conclusion that it is God's supreme way of speaking to Man. The "economy" or God's methods of relating to Man changed from Old Testament times to New Testamentdue to the historical appearance of Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, the God-Man.





Granted, "Bible-believers" are a kind of Christian, much as Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses are a kind of Christian.

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