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Switch to Forum Live View When Jesus said: "Before Abraham was I am" was he claiming to be God?
3 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2012 - 2:01AM #51
Namchuck
Posts: 11,698

Mar 1, 2012 -- 1:36AM, iamachildofhis wrote:



Namchuck:  As yet, no believer has been able to coherently respond to my question about faith: If faith can lead to wrong beliefs, what value is there in it?



iama:  Your fundamental definition of biblical "faith" is in error! There are several different uses for the term "faith" given in The Bible.


Biblical FAITH is always based upon historical "proof" / "evidence" / "assurance" / "substance":


Nonsense. There is no proof or evidence, historical or otherwise, for the supernatural claims of the Bible.


Faith remains the transparent admission that one's beliefs cannot stand on their own two feet.




Blind Faith or Faith Based on Eyewitness Testimony




The FAITH which is BELIEVED by birthed-from-above-Christians, is based upon the eyewitness accounts of the humans who lived and traveled with Christ Jesus for 3+ years.  They were convinced / had the assurance needed that Christ Jesus was God-Son, incarnate - The Resurrection of Christ Jesus three days after He was witnessed to have been crucified and dead.


We have no verified "eyewitness" accounts of the supposed life of Jesus of Nazareth.  


Read the above article and change your understanding of what biblical FAITH and BELIEF are.  If we are Believing that which is True, then there will NOT BE WRONG BELIEFS.


You have completely failed to answer my question about faith: All religions are based on faith. Even opposing religions are based on faith. If faith can lead to false beliefs, what value is there in faith?




.





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3 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2012 - 3:07AM #52
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,674

Mar 1, 2012 -- 2:01AM, Namchuck wrote:



Namchuck:  As yet, no believer has been able to coherently respond to my question about faith: If faith can lead to wrong beliefs, what value is there in it?


iama:  Your fundamental definition of biblical "faith" is in error! There are several different uses for the term "faith" given in The Bible.


Biblical FAITH is always based upon historical "proof" / "evidence" / "assurance" / "substance":


Namchuck: Nonsense. There is no proof or evidence, historical or otherwise, for the supernatural claims of the Bible.


Faith remains the transparent admission that one's beliefs cannot stand on their own two feet.



iama:  You are not biblical in your statement! Who are you believing when you make your claims?  You are holding to a faith which is based upon what you are calling evidence.  What is your "proof" / "evidence" / "assurance" / "substance"? You are presenting yourself as being so sure of your position.  Where does that foundation originate, for you?


iama:


Blind Faith or Faith Based on Eyewitness Testimony


The FAITH which is BELIEVED by birthed-from-above-Christians, is based upon the eyewitness accounts of the humans who lived and traveled with Christ Jesus for 3+ years.  They were convinced / had the assurance needed that Christ Jesus was God-Son, incarnate - The Resurrection of Christ Jesus three days after He was witnessed to have been crucified and dead.


Namchuck: We have no verified "eyewitness" accounts of the supposed life of Jesus of Nazareth.


 


iama:  I take the whole of The Bible as recording human-God-interactions which are recorded as accurate history from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation's ending.  The Figures of Speech employed by humans and the poetry portions were recorded during the life-times of humans, whose histories are recorded.  I don't allow the secular-so-called-biblical-scholars to tamper with The Bible!  They are unbelievers having their hidden agendas!  The Bible is filled with eyewitness accounts of reality, historical events.


iama: Read the above article and change your understanding of what biblical FAITH and BELIEF are.  If we are Believing that which is True, then there will NOT BE WRONG BELIEFS.


Namchuck: You have completely failed to answer my question about faith: All religions are based on faith. Even opposing religions are based on faith. If faith can lead to false beliefs, what value is there in faith?



iama:  You, obviously, didn't read and comprehend the article which I linked to!


Notice in the following that "The Seed should come." That "Seed" is Christ Jesus.


Christ Jesus' coming meant that there was, now, a human being who could meet all the requirements of The Law given to Moses. The Law COULDN'T give human beings the LIFE which they had lost in Adam's choice to choose his own way.


Gal 3:19-25     
Wherefore then [serves] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;


"[and it (The Law) was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one. [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law."


iama: Righteousness CAN'T be earned by keeping of The Law, because humans couldn't keep The Law!


But the Scripture has concluded all under sin,"


iama: Now, Namchuck, here is the truth of the matter called FAITH unto which we must believe in order to receive LIFE.


"that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


iama:  If you have access to Greek noun forms, you will know that the above could be written thus:


"that the promise by Jesus Christ's faith might be given to them that believe."


iama: There is only one FAITH with respect to the Christian; it is Christ Jesus, Himself. He is The FAITH unto Whom we are invited to BELIEVE.  All other faiths / religions have their own "that which they are invited to believe" / that religion's faith.


If you believe the faith of each of the myriad of other religions, what is "the faith" package which you are told to believe? What is the historical validity of that "the faith" package?


"But before FAITH came,"


iama:  You see, FAITH, the God-Son, incarnated - He CAME - from the eternal realm into this Created-realm, for the specific purpose of restoring to human beings what Adam had lost to humanity with His Fall as a result of his disobedience. 


we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed."


iama: "The Faith" / Christ Jesus' "Faith" / Himself, was revealed in the land of Israel ~2,000 years ago.  There is no religion anywhere today, or throughout human history, which has a Savior, Who CAME from the eternal realm God-Son, Who lived a perfect human life, Who died our "wages of sin is" death penalty, and Who rose from death into a resurrection-eternal-life-body.  He did it all for us, sinners, and He offers to us His righteousness, in exchange for our sin-debt-guilt, as a FREE GIFT.  


Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


iama:  Humans can, now, be made righteous by Christ Jesus, the faith Who came.


But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."


iama:  Note, again, that "faith" CAME.  "FAITH" is the Person of God-Son, Who incarnated.






Christians BELIEVE a very specific "FAITH" - CHRIST JESUS - Who CAME.




Hindus don't; they believe some other "faith."


Muslims don't: they believe some other "faith."


Atheists don't; they believe some other "faith."


Buddhists don't; they believe some other "faith."


No other belief-system does; they believe some other "faith."




.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2012 - 3:46AM #53
Namchuck
Posts: 11,698

Mar 1, 2012 -- 3:07AM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Mar 1, 2012 -- 2:01AM, Namchuck wrote:



Namchuck:  As yet, no believer has been able to coherently respond to my question about faith: If faith can lead to wrong beliefs, what value is there in it?


iama:  Your fundamental definition of biblical "faith" is in error! There are several different uses for the term "faith" given in The Bible.


Biblical FAITH is always based upon historical "proof" / "evidence" / "assurance" / "substance":


Namchuck: Nonsense. There is no proof or evidence, historical or otherwise, for the supernatural claims of the Bible.


Faith remains the transparent admission that one's beliefs cannot stand on their own two feet.



iama:  You are not biblical in your statement! Who are you believing when you make your claims?  You are holding to a faith which is based upon what you are calling evidence.  What is your "proof" / "evidence" / "assurance" / "substance"? You are presenting yourself as being so sure of your position.  Where does that foundation originate, for you?




iama:


Blind Faith or Faith Based on Eyewitness Testimony


The FAITH which is BELIEVED by birthed-from-above-Christians, is based upon the eyewitness accounts of the humans who lived and traveled with Christ Jesus for 3+ years.  They were convinced / had the assurance needed that Christ Jesus was God-Son, incarnate - The Resurrection of Christ Jesus three days after He was witnessed to have been crucified and dead.


Namchuck: We have no verified "eyewitness" accounts of the supposed life of Jesus of Nazareth.


 


iama:  I take the whole of The Bible as recording human-God-interactions which are recorded as accurate history from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation's ending.  The Figures of Speech employed by humans and the poetry portions were recorded during the life-times of humans, whose histories are recorded.  I don't allow the secular-so-called-biblical-scholars to tamper with The Bible!  They are unbelievers having their hidden agendas!  The Bible is filled with eyewitness accounts of reality, historical events.


iama: Read the above article and change your understanding of what biblical FAITH and BELIEF are.  If we are Believing that which is True, then there will NOT BE WRONG BELIEFS.


Namchuck: You have completely failed to answer my question about faith: All religions are based on faith. Even opposing religions are based on faith. If faith can lead to false beliefs, what value is there in faith?



iama:  You, obviously, didn't read and comprehend the article which I linked to!


Notice in the following that "The Seed should come." That "Seed" is Christ Jesus.


Christ Jesus' coming meant that there was, now, a human being who could meet all the requirements of The Law given to Moses. The Law COULDN'T give human beings the LIFE which they had lost in Adam's choice to choose his own way.


Gal 3:19-25     
Wherefore then [serves] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;


"[and it (The Law) was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one. [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law."


iama: Righteousness CAN'T be earned by keeping of The Law, because humans couldn't keep The Law!


But the Scripture has concluded all under sin,"


iama: Now, Namchuck, here is the truth of the matter called FAITH unto which we must believe in order to receive LIFE.


"that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


iama:  If you have access to Greek noun forms, you will know that the above could be written thus:


"that the promise by Jesus Christ's faith might be given to them that believe."


iama: There is only one FAITH with respect to the Christian; it is Christ Jesus, Himself. He is The FAITH unto Whom we are invited to BELIEVE.  All other faiths / religions have their own "that which they are invited to believe" / that religion's faith.


If you believe the faith of each of the myriad of other religions, what is "the faith" package which you are told to believe? What is the historical validity of that "the faith" package?


"But before FAITH came,"


iama:  You see, FAITH, the God-Son, incarnated - He CAME - from the eternal realm into this Created-realm, for the specific purpose of restoring to human beings what Adam had lost to humanity with His Fall as a result of his disobedience. 


we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed."


iama: "The Faith" / Christ Jesus' "Faith" / Himself, was revealed in the land of Israel ~2,000 years ago.  There is no religion anywhere today, or throughout human history, which has a Savior, Who CAME from the eternal realm God-Son, Who lived a perfect human life, Who died our "wages of sin is" death penalty, and Who rose from death into a resurrection-eternal-life-body.  He did it all for us, sinners, and He offers to us His righteousness, in exchange for our sin-debt-guilt, as a FREE GIFT.  


Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


iama:  Humans can, now, be made righteous by Christ Jesus, the faith Who came.


But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."


iama:  Note, again, that "faith" CAME.  "FAITH" is the Person of God-Son, Who incarnated.






Christians BELIEVE a very specific "FAITH" - CHRIST JESUS - Who CAME.




Hindus don't; they believe some other "faith."


Muslims don't: they believe some other "faith."


Atheists don't; they believe some other "faith."


Buddhists don't; they believe some other "faith."


No other belief-system does; they believe some other "faith."




.




I'm not interested in your long-winded and absurd sermons, iama. (Can you not remember Jesus' admonition to his followers to be laconic with their words?)


If you want to put questions to me, put them plainly without all the attendant and inane and baroque theology and I'll do my best to answer them.


By the way, Hindu's, Muslims, etc, invoke faith the same way Christians do, and all objects of faith, whether it be the Christian's belief in Jesus and his resurrection, the Muslim's belief that Mohammed ascended to heaven on a white horse, or some equally unjustified claims made by Hindu's about Krishna, all inhabit the same the field.


As I've said before, faith serves as armour to protect belief. The more fragile the belief - the more it contradicts rational thinking - the stronger the faith needs to be. It bears repeating that faith by its very invocation is the transparent admission that religious claims cannot stand on their own two feet. A fairy tale never refutes itself.



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3 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2012 - 11:23AM #54
Joe68
Posts: 289

Mar 1, 2012 -- 3:07AM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Mar 1, 2012 -- 2:01AM, Namchuck wrote:



Namchuck:  As yet, no believer has been able to coherently respond to my question about faith: If faith can lead to wrong beliefs, what value is there in it?


iama:  Your fundamental definition of biblical "faith" is in error! There are several different uses for the term "faith" given in The Bible.


Biblical FAITH is always based upon historical "proof" / "evidence" / "assurance" / "substance":


Namchuck: Nonsense. There is no proof or evidence, historical or otherwise, for the supernatural claims of the Bible.


Faith remains the transparent admission that one's beliefs cannot stand on their own two feet.



iama:  You are not biblical in your statement! Who are you believing when you make your claims?  You are holding to a faith which is based upon what you are calling evidence.  What is your "proof" / "evidence" / "assurance" / "substance"? You are presenting yourself as being so sure of your position.  Where does that foundation originate, for you?


iama:


Blind Faith or Faith Based on Eyewitness Testimony


The FAITH which is BELIEVED by birthed-from-above-Christians, is based upon the eyewitness accounts of the humans who lived and traveled with Christ Jesus for 3+ years.  They were convinced / had the assurance needed that Christ Jesus was God-Son, incarnate - The Resurrection of Christ Jesus three days after He was witnessed to have been crucified and dead.


Namchuck: We have no verified "eyewitness" accounts of the supposed life of Jesus of Nazareth.


 


iama:  I take the whole of The Bible as recording human-God-interactions which are recorded as accurate history from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation's ending.  The Figures of Speech employed by humans and the poetry portions were recorded during the life-times of humans, whose histories are recorded.  I don't allow the secular-so-called-biblical-scholars to tamper with The Bible!  They are unbelievers having their hidden agendas!  The Bible is filled with eyewitness accounts of reality, historical events.


iama: Read the above article and change your understanding of what biblical FAITH and BELIEF are.  If we are Believing that which is True, then there will NOT BE WRONG BELIEFS.


Namchuck: You have completely failed to answer my question about faith: All religions are based on faith. Even opposing religions are based on faith. If faith can lead to false beliefs, what value is there in faith?



iama:  You, obviously, didn't read and comprehend the article which I linked to!


Notice in the following that "The Seed should come." That "Seed" is Christ Jesus.


Christ Jesus' coming meant that there was, now, a human being who could meet all the requirements of The Law given to Moses. The Law COULDN'T give human beings the LIFE which they had lost in Adam's choice to choose his own way.


Gal 3:19-25     
Wherefore then [serves] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;


"[and it (The Law) was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one. [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law."


iama: Righteousness CAN'T be earned by keeping of The Law, because humans couldn't keep The Law!


But the Scripture has concluded all under sin,"


iama: Now, Namchuck, here is the truth of the matter called FAITH unto which we must believe in order to receive LIFE.


"that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


iama:  If you have access to Greek noun forms, you will know that the above could be written thus:


"that the promise by Jesus Christ's faith might be given to them that believe."


iama: There is only one FAITH with respect to the Christian; it is Christ Jesus, Himself. He is The FAITH unto Whom we are invited to BELIEVE.  All other faiths / religions have their own "that which they are invited to believe" / that religion's faith.


If you believe the faith of each of the myriad of other religions, what is "the faith" package which you are told to believe? What is the historical validity of that "the faith" package?


"But before FAITH came,"


iama:  You see, FAITH, the God-Son, incarnated - He CAME - from the eternal realm into this Created-realm, for the specific purpose of restoring to human beings what Adam had lost to humanity with His Fall as a result of his disobedience. 


we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed."


iama: "The Faith" / Christ Jesus' "Faith" / Himself, was revealed in the land of Israel ~2,000 years ago.  There is no religion anywhere today, or throughout human history, which has a Savior, Who CAME from the eternal realm God-Son, Who lived a perfect human life, Who died our "wages of sin is" death penalty, and Who rose from death into a resurrection-eternal-life-body.  He did it all for us, sinners, and He offers to us His righteousness, in exchange for our sin-debt-guilt, as a FREE GIFT.  


Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


iama:  Humans can, now, be made righteous by Christ Jesus, the faith Who came.


But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."


iama:  Note, again, that "faith" CAME.  "FAITH" is the Person of God-Son, Who incarnated.






Christians BELIEVE a very specific "FAITH" - CHRIST JESUS - Who CAME.




Hindus don't; they believe some other "faith."


Muslims don't: they believe some other "faith."


Atheists don't; they believe some other "faith."


Buddhists don't; they believe some other "faith."


No other belief-system does; they believe some other "faith."




.





Eaxctly.


The important thing is the person in whom Christian have faith in. In whom they trust i.e. Jesus Christ.


It is not that faith leads to wrong or false beliefs but faith in the wrong person (i.e. anyone other than Jesus Christ) leads to wrong or false beliefs.     

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2012 - 2:30PM #55
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,674

Mar 1, 2012 -- 3:46AM, Namchuck wrote:



Namchuck:  As yet, no believer has been able to coherently respond to my question about faith: If faith can lead to wrong beliefs, what value is there in it?


iama:  Your fundamental definition of biblical "faith" is in error! There are several different uses for the term "faith" given in The Bible.


Biblical FAITH is always based upon historical "proof" / "evidence" / "assurance" / "substance":


Namchuck: Nonsense. There is no proof or evidence, historical or otherwise, for the supernatural claims of the Bible.


Faith remains the transparent admission that one's beliefs cannot stand on their own two feet.


iama:  You are not biblical in your statement! Who are you believing when you make your claims?  You are holding to a faith which is based upon what you are calling evidence.  What is your "proof" / "evidence" / "assurance" / "substance"? You are presenting yourself as being so sure of your position.  Where does that foundation originate, for you?



iama:  Namchuck, I asked you the, above, question.  You did not answer the question.


You are claiming that "your beliefs" are allowing you to "stand on your own two feet."


You are posturing yourself as some great authority, having all of the answers.  What is it that you are believing?  What is your faith?  Is it yourself?


iama:


Blind Faith or Faith Based on Eyewitness Testimony


The FAITH which is BELIEVED by birthed-from-above-Christians, is based upon the eyewitness accounts of the humans who lived and traveled with Christ Jesus for 3+ years.  They were convinced / had the assurance needed that Christ Jesus was God-Son, incarnate - The Resurrection of Christ Jesus three days after He was witnessed to have been crucified and dead.


Namchuck: We have no verified "eyewitness" accounts of the supposed life of Jesus of Nazareth.


 


iama:  I take the whole of The Bible as recording human-God-interactions which are recorded as accurate history from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation's ending.  The Figures of Speech employed by humans and the poetry portions were recorded during the life-times of humans, whose histories are recorded.  I don't allow the secular-so-called-biblical-scholars to tamper with The Bible!  They are unbelievers having their hidden agendas!  The Bible is filled with eyewitness accounts of reality, historical events.


iama: Read the above article and change your understanding of what biblical FAITH and BELIEF are.  If we are Believing that which is True, then there will NOT BE WRONG BELIEFS.


Namchuck: You have completely failed to answer my question about faith: All religions are based on faith. Even opposing religions are based on faith. If faith can lead to false beliefs, what value is there in faith?



iama:  You, obviously, didn't read and comprehend the article which I linked to!


Notice in the following that "The Seed should come." That "Seed" is Christ Jesus.


Christ Jesus' coming meant that there was, now, a human being who could meet all the requirements of The Law given to Moses. The Law COULDN'T give human beings the LIFE which they had lost in Adam's choice to choose his own way.


Gal 3:19-25     
Wherefore then [serves] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;


"[and it (The Law) was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one. [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law."


iama: Righteousness CAN'T be earned by keeping of The Law, because humans couldn't keep The Law!


But the Scripture has concluded all under sin,"


iama: Now, Namchuck, here is the truth of the matter called FAITH unto which we must believe in order to receive LIFE.


"that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


iama:  If you have access to Greek noun forms, you will know that the above could be written thus:


"that the promise by Jesus Christ's faith might be given to them that believe."


iama: There is only one FAITH with respect to the Christian; it is Christ Jesus, Himself. He is The FAITH unto Whom we are invited to BELIEVE.  All other faiths / religions have their own "that which they are invited to believe" / that religion's faith.


If you believe the faith of each of the myriad of other religions, what is "the faith" package which you are told to believe? What is the historical validity of that "the faith" package?


"But before FAITH came,"


iama:  You see, FAITH, the God-Son, incarnated - He CAME - from the eternal realm into this Created-realm, for the specific purpose of restoring to human beings what Adam had lost to humanity with His Fall as a result of his disobedience. 


we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed."


iama: "The Faith" / Christ Jesus' "Faith" / Himself, was revealed in the land of Israel ~2,000 years ago.  There is no religion anywhere today, or throughout human history, which has a Savior, Who CAME from the eternal realm God-Son, Who lived a perfect human life, Who died our "wages of sin is" death penalty, and Who rose from death into a resurrection-eternal-life-body.  He did it all for us, sinners, and He offers to us His righteousness, in exchange for our sin-debt-guilt, as a FREE GIFT.  


Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


iama:  Humans can, now, be made righteous by Christ Jesus, the faith Who came.


But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."


iama:  Note, again, that "faith" CAME.  "FAITH" is the Person of God-Son, Who incarnated.




Christians BELIEVE a very specific "FAITH" - CHRIST JESUS - Who CAME.




Hindus don't; they believe some other "faith."


Muslims don't: they believe some other "faith."


Atheists don't; they believe some other "faith."


Buddhists don't; they believe some other "faith."


No other belief-system does; they believe some other "faith."


Namchuck: I'm not interested in your long-winded and absurd sermons, iama. (Can you not remember Jesus' admonition to his followers to be laconic with their words?)



iama: You are rejecting The Bible as the Authority from which all TRUTH may be gleaned.  If you are going to interact with me on this forum, you will relate to The Bible, or there will be no dialogue!  I am not interested in humanistic rabbit trails!


Namchuck: If you want to put questions to me, put them plainly without all the attendant and inane and baroque theology and I'll do my best to answer them.



iama: Okay, answer the question which you ignored, above.


Namchuck: By the way, Hindu's, Muslims, etc, invoke faith the same way Christians do, and all objects of faith, whether it be the Christian's belief in Jesus and his resurrection, the Muslim's belief that Mohammed ascended to heaven on a white horse, or some equally unjustified claims made by Hindu's about Krishna, all inhabit the same the field.



iama: What field? A field of poppies? A field of wheat? A field of trees? A field of rocks? A field of cabbages? A field of tulips?


Namchuck: As I've said before, faith serves as armour to protect belief. The more fragile the belief - the more it contradicts rational thinking - the stronger the faith needs to be. It bears repeating that faith by its very invocation is the transparent admission that religious claims cannot stand on their own two feet. A fairy tale never refutes itself.



iama: You have it backward!


I am protected by Christ Jesus, Who is my FAITH.


That is what I believe.


Christ Jesus is responsible to accomplish what He has promised.


The crux of His FAITH / Himself, is: Is He ABLE to keep His promises?


Christ Jesus' THE FAITH, according to The Bible's promises / claims /


eyewitness accounts / historical recordings / etc., is TRUSTWORTHY,


HISTORICAL, REALITY EVIDENCE , SUBSTANCE, ETC.,


and my response is BELIEF.


BELIEF is my willingness to climb onto the tightrope walker's shoulders


and allow Him to carry me across to the other side of the chasm


separating sinners from our righteous Creator-God.




The "field" of The Christian "FAITH is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen," which resides in Christ Jesus, God-Son, incarnate, Who lived His perfect human life for us, Who died His perfect flesh-blood death for us, Who resurrected into His perfectly fitted eternal-realm body for us, and ascended to the right hand of His Father, for us.


No other "religious faith" comprises such a Savior; all human beings need a Savior.


If you reject The Bible's historical recording of such a Savior, there is nothing to talk about!



1Cr 15:17     
"And if Christ be not raised, your (Christ Jesus' FAITH Whom you BELIEVE) faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins."


We keep returning to The Bible; is it the TRUTH which it claims to be?


I know that it is!


The FAITH Whom Christians BELIEVE is the SUBSTANCE and the EVIDENCE recorded by human recorders who were God-Holy Spirit in-breathed as they recorded their historical accounts from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation's ending.


The FAITH Whom Christians BELIEVE - Christ Jesus - God - Father-Son-Holy Spirit - substance and evidence recorded in The Bible's historically recorded, and historically accurate, in the originals, pages.


The "field" unto Whom Christians BELIEVE is reality existence: Christ Jesus.


.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
.
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 01, 2012 - 9:31PM #56
Rgurley4
Posts: 8,819

As yet, no believer has been able to coherently respond to my question about faith:


>>>If faith can lead to wrong beliefs, what value is there in it?<<<


Objection: Trick question...The question assumes that Spirit-led FAITH / BELIEF in the TRI-UNE God can lead to ANYWHERE but to HIM. ...not to  "wrong beliefs" as perceived by Man.



Hebrews 11...DEFINITION of "Faith"
 1 Now faith is:
(A.) being SURE of what we HOPE for
and
(B.) (being) CERTAIN of what we do not SEE.



Romans 10...Saved by Spirit-led FAITH
...the word of FAITH we are proclaiming:
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"
and BELIEVE in your heart (spirit/soul) that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified,
and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved....
for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."...
FAITH comes from hearing the message (good news= gospel) , and the message is heard through the word of Christ.


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3 years ago  ::  Mar 02, 2012 - 1:20AM #57
Namchuck
Posts: 11,698

Mar 1, 2012 -- 9:31PM, Rgurley4 wrote:


As yet, no believer has been able to coherently respond to my question about faith:


>>>If faith can lead to wrong beliefs, what value is there in it?<<<


Objection: Trick question...The question assumes that Spirit-led FAITH / BELIEF in the TRI-UNE God can lead to ANYWHERE but to HIM. ...not to  "wrong beliefs" as perceived by Man.



No trick at all, just a plain and simple question that no believer can answer coherently.


Faith is simply the license believers give themselves to believe in nonsense.


 

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3 years ago  ::  Mar 03, 2012 - 12:40PM #58
world citizen
Posts: 5,540

This thread has moved far afield of its topic and is being locked to further posts for the following reasons:


1.  Questioning another Beliefnet member's faith
2.  Beliefnet member being made the topic of conversation
3.  Other religions and their non-Biblical beliefs introduced into the discussion
4.  Discussion of ANY religion not being the purpose of this forum.


world citizen, moderator
Sacred Texts/The Bible

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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