Jan 24, 2012 -- 2:58PM, Craig_w_dressler wrote:

While speaking to the religious leaders of his day, Jesus said, "Before Abraham was I am."  The words I am are one of the names of God that God gave to Moses.  The religious leaders of his day knew Jesus was claiming to be God, and for this they almost stoned him to death.  This scripture, as do many others, points to the truth of the Trinity which all true Christian denominations believe.

It is likely that that whole business was later fabricated by those who wanted to apotheosize Jesus.

There are, according to the Gospels, many sayings of Jesus that thoroughly undermine the notion that he made such a claim.

The problem is, the scripture is so inconsistent and contradictory that one can easily pick and choose according to a priori belief, and that's exactly what Christians do.

Feb 1, 2012 -- 12:23PM, Rgurley4 wrote:

See my post at an "identical" thread....

community.beliefnet.com/go/post/reply/44...

And it's repetition merely magnifies it's inaccuracies.

My understanding of this is that it is the Holy Spirit within Jesus which has existed for all eternity and is the spoken Word.

But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.  John 7:39

It was't until Jesus' baptism by John that He received of the Holy Spirit, and spoke the Word as given to Him ...

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.  John 5:30

It was the same Word which spoke through Moses:

Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: ... And Moses spake so unto the children of Israel...  Exodus 6:6, 6:9

I feel that many of the "inconsistencies" found are more due to man's failure to view a vast majority of things as metaphor/allegory.  Yes, if accepted literally, there are many seeming contradictions.

Could you please give me an example or two, Namchuck.  They could be ones with which I agree/disagree and we could have more dialog in that direction.