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Switch to Forum Live View When Jesus said: "Before Abraham was I am" was he claiming to be God?
3 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2012 - 2:58PM #1
Craig_w_dressler
Posts: 86
While speaking to the religious leaders of his day, Jesus said, "Before Abraham was I am."  The words I am are one of the names of God that God gave to Moses.  The religious leaders of his day knew Jesus was claiming to be God, and for this they almost stoned him to death.  This scripture, as do many others, points to the truth of the Trinity which all true Christian denominations believe.
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 25, 2012 - 12:00AM #2
Namchuck
Posts: 11,649

Jan 24, 2012 -- 2:58PM, Craig_w_dressler wrote:

While speaking to the religious leaders of his day, Jesus said, "Before Abraham was I am."  The words I am are one of the names of God that God gave to Moses.  The religious leaders of his day knew Jesus was claiming to be God, and for this they almost stoned him to death.  This scripture, as do many others, points to the truth of the Trinity which all true Christian denominations believe.



It is likely that that whole business was later fabricated by those who wanted to apotheosize Jesus.


There are, according to the Gospels, many sayings of Jesus that thoroughly undermine the notion that he made such a claim.


The problem is, the scripture is so inconsistent and contradictory that one can easily pick and choose according to a priori belief, and that's exactly what Christians do.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 01, 2012 - 12:23PM #3
Rgurley4
Posts: 8,683

See my post at an "identical" thread....


community.beliefnet.com/go/post/reply/44...

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 02, 2012 - 2:00AM #4
Namchuck
Posts: 11,649

Feb 1, 2012 -- 12:23PM, Rgurley4 wrote:


See my post at an "identical" thread....


community.beliefnet.com/go/post/reply/44...




And it's repetition merely magnifies it's inaccuracies.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 12, 2012 - 1:26PM #5
MMarcoe
Posts: 16,417

Jan 24, 2012 -- 2:58PM, Craig_w_dressler wrote:

While speaking to the religious leaders of his day, Jesus said, "Before Abraham was I am."  The words I am are one of the names of God that God gave to Moses.  The religious leaders of his day knew Jesus was claiming to be God, and for this they almost stoned him to death.  This scripture, as do many others, points to the truth of the Trinity which all true Christian denominations believe.




This scripture says nothing about the Trinity. It only speaks about God. Jesus was saying that God existed before Abraham. He was not saying that he was God.


You are making things up. I, on the other hand, am reading what is right before my eyes.

There are three sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth.

God is just a personification of reality, of pure objectivity.
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 14, 2012 - 10:56AM #6
world citizen
Posts: 5,487

My understanding of this is that it is the Holy Spirit within Jesus which has existed for all eternity and is the spoken Word.


But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.  John 7:39


It was't until Jesus' baptism by John that He received of the Holy Spirit, and spoke the Word as given to Him ...


I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.  John 5:30


It was the same Word which spoke through Moses:


Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: ... And Moses spake so unto the children of Israel...  Exodus 6:6, 6:9

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2012 - 1:30AM #7
Namchuck
Posts: 11,649

The problem is, Jesus is made to say so many inconsistent and contradictory things in the Gospels  that one is free to pick and choose according to one's faith-persuasion.

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2012 - 1:58PM #8
world citizen
Posts: 5,487

I feel that many of the "inconsistencies" found are more due to man's failure to view a vast majority of things as metaphor/allegory.  Yes, if accepted literally, there are many seeming contradictions.

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2012 - 1:45AM #9
Namchuck
Posts: 11,649

Feb 15, 2012 -- 1:58PM, world citizen wrote:


I feel that many of the "inconsistencies" found are more due to man's failure to view a vast majority of things as metaphor/allegory.  Yes, if accepted literally, there are many seeming contradictions.




I don't agree. There are some very plain but inconsistent and even contradictory statements made by Jesus in the Gospels that can't be explained away by invoking the excuse of metaphor or allegory. 

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3 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2012 - 11:38AM #10
world citizen
Posts: 5,487

Could you please give me an example or two, Namchuck.  They could be ones with which I agree/disagree and we could have more dialog in that direction.

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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