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Switch to Forum Live View When Jesus said: "Before Abraham was I am" was he claiming to be God?
2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2012 - 6:02AM #91
duaneg
Posts: 37

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As I've often said, duaneg, the scriptures are so inconsistently broad that you can find support within them for just about any stance you might want to adopt, which is why, obviously, Christianity is made up of some many different and even contradictory factions all ready to defend their position with cherry-picked passages from the Bible.


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It may seem that way to you but if you have spent as much time proving what is true, as I have then you would know better.  If your goal is to find the truth no matter what it is, instead of defending what you want to believe, it makes all the difference.  And if you know God is watching and taking note and that it won't be long before your life is over, you will have deep respect for his words.


(Isa 66:2 KJV)  For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.


(LORD) = Yahweh


The Devil cherry-picked Scriptures to try to deceive the Son of God just as he did to deceive Eve, but Yahshua (Jesus) knew the Scriptures.


(Luke 4:4 KJV)  And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

(1 Tim 2:5 KJV)  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 02, 2012 - 5:14PM #92
Namchuck
Posts: 11,699

As I've often said, duaneg, the scriptures are so inconsistently broad that you can find support within them for just about any stance you might want to adopt, which is why, obviously, Christianity is made up of some many different and even contradictory factions all ready to defend their position with cherry-picked passages from the Bible.



_________


It may seem that way to you but if you have spent as much time proving what is true, as I have then you would know better.


How do you know how much time I have spent "proving what is true", duaneg?


  If your goal is to find the truth no matter what it is, instead of defending what you want to believe, it makes all the difference.


This appears to me to be a classic example of one forgetting that there are three fingers pointing back at you while you direct one at me.


(Isa 66:2 KJV)  For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.


Others make similar creative claims for their particular gods. Where is the evidence that your preferred deity is the true one?


(LORD) = Yahweh


The Devil cherry-picked Scriptures to try to deceive the Son of God just as he did to deceive Eve, but Yahshua (Jesus) knew the Scriptures.


And let's not forget that Jesus, if he lived at all, wasn't that familiar with scripture, given that he was prone to misquote them. Take Mark 2:25-26 for example.


(Luke 4:4 KJV)  And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.


That would be a difficult thing to abide by, duaneg, given, as mentioned above, the inconsistency of the "word of God".


What standards from the Bible are we to live by and which are we to disregard, considering how contradictory some of them are. I mean, look at the unjust ways of your favorite deity. He lays a three-year famine on David's people for Saul's slaughter of the Gibeonites (2Sam. 21:1). He orders David to take a census of his men, and then sends a plague on Israel, killing seventy thousand for David's sin in taking the census (2 Sam.24:10-15). He sends two she bears out of the woods to tear forty-two children to pieces, because they called  Elisha a bald head (2Kings2:23-24). The list can be added to almost endlessly. Would you excuse this cruelty and injustice on the ground that God may do what humans may not? Consider what the Bible permits: slavery is allowed (Lev.25:44-46. Eph.6:5; Col.3:22). Fathers may sell their daughters into slavery (Ex.21:7). Slaves may be beaten, as long as they survive for two days after (Ex.21:20-21; Luke 12 45-48). Children may be sacrificed to God in return for his aid in battle (2Kings 3:26-27), or to persuade him to end a famine (2Sam.21). 


As I say, the list can be added to almost ad infinitum, including much of the same sort of thing from the New Testament, all of which seems to show the biblical God as nothing more than an Oriental tyrant, only bigger and invisible.


[ad hominem removed - wc]

Moderated by world citizen on Jul 07, 2012 - 12:06PM
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 6:52AM #93
duaneg
Posts: 37

How do you know how much time I have spent "proving what is true", duaneg?


Duane: I don't know of course but i do know how much time I have spent and what I found.



Others make similar creative claims for their particular gods. Where is the evidence that your preferred deity is the true one?


Duane: The Bible.



And let's not forget that Jesus, if he lived at all, wasn't that familiar with scripture, given that he was prone to misquote them. Take Mark 2:25-26 for example.


Duane: I think he was 100% accurate.  Sometimes it is just the translators and/or our assumptions.


What standards from the Bible are we to live by and which are we to disregard, considering how contradictory some of them are. I mean, look at the unjust ways of your favorite deity. He lays a three-year famine on David's people for Saul's slaughter of the Gibeonites (2Sam. 21:1). He orders David to take a census of his men, and then sends a plague on Israel, killing seventy thousand for David's sin in taking the census (2 Sam.24:10-15). He sends two she bears out of the woods to tear forty-two children to pieces, because they called  Elisha a bald head (2Kings2:23-24). The list can be added to almost endlessly. Would you excuse this cruelty and injustice on the ground that God may do what humans may not? Consider what the Bible permits: slavery is allowed (Lev.25:44-46. Eph.6:5; Col.3:22). Fathers may sell their daughters into slavery (Ex.21:7). Slaves may be beaten, as long as they survive for two days after (Ex.21:20-21; Luke 12 45-48). Children may be sacrificed to God in return for his aid in battle (2Kings 3:26-27), or to persuade him to end a famine (2Sam.21). As I say, the list can be added to almost ad infinitum, including much of the same sort of thing from the New Testament, all of which seems to show the biblical God as nothing more than an Oriental tyrant, only bigger and invisible.


Duane: Well, you have your conclusions and I have mine.


[ad hominem removed - wc]

Moderated by world citizen on Jul 07, 2012 - 12:08PM
(1 Tim 2:5 KJV)  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 5:42PM #94
Namchuck
Posts: 11,699

Jul 3, 2012 -- 6:52AM, duaneg wrote:


Duane: I don't know of course but i do know how much time I have spent and what I found.


It doesn't appear that you have found anything but exacty what you were looking for, duaneg. This is a propensity of believers of every stripe, which might speak more of wishful thinking than any discovery of truth.



You are assuming.


Perhaps, but the absence of any evidence that there is a 'note-taking' God gives that minimal assumption a fair bit of clout.



Duane: The Bible.


You are the first believer I have encountered williing to admit that their God is the Bible!



Duane: I think he was 100% accurate.  Sometimes it is just the translators and/or our assumptions.


There is no assumption that Jesus misquoted the scripture in this passage. It's right there for all to compare and see. Now, how honest is it that every time one finds a contradiction in scripture that we simply, and automatically, blame the translators? if this is the case, how can we be confident that much of it at all is reliable?



Duane: Well, you have your conclusions and I have mine.


It isn't about "conclusions" but following the clear statements of scripture to what they clearly tell us about the Bible God. This is something a disciple of truth would clearly do. And the picture they paint of the biblical God (and the references I gave were only the tip of the iceberg) is not nice.


[ad hominem removed - wc]

Moderated by world citizen on Jul 07, 2012 - 12:12PM
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 6:31PM #95
duaneg
Posts: 37

It doesn't appear that you have found anything but exacty what you were looking for, duaneg. This is a propensity of believers of every stripe, which might speak more of wishful thinking than any discovery of truth.


Duane: You need to read it again.


Duane: The Bible.


You are the first believer I have encountered williing to admit that their God is the Bible!


Duane: No.


There is no assumption that Jesus misquoted the scripture in this passage. It's right there for all to compare and see. Now, how honest is it that every time one finds a contradiction in scripture that we simply, and automatically, blame the translators? if this is the case, how can we be confident that much of it at all is reliable?


Duane: Well, you have your conclusions and I have mine.


It appears that you are not a disciple of truth but merely another believer foisting his wishful thinking onto preferred passages of scripture while avoiding all of the ones that depict the Bible God as the worst kind of despot.  

Duane: Appearance can be deceptive.


[ad hominem removed - wc]

Moderated by world citizen on Jul 07, 2012 - 12:16PM
(1 Tim 2:5 KJV)  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 03, 2012 - 10:47PM #96
Namchuck
Posts: 11,699

Jul 3, 2012 -- 6:31PM, duaneg wrote:


Duane: You need to read it again.


I've apparently read the Bible more often than you have, which is why I don't dodge the fact that its God is a morally reprehensible entity.


Appearance can be deceptive.


Perhaps, but we're not talking about appearances. We're talking about the Bible God, a God who sanctions rape, murder, slavery, and child abuse. Thank goodness that there is no good evidence that such a being exists.


[ad hominem removed - wc]

Moderated by world citizen on Jul 07, 2012 - 12:23PM
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2012 - 12:41PM #97
world citizen
Posts: 5,543

This forum is NOT about Christians or Christianity in general, nor is this thread for "... talking about your [an individual member's] inability to face uncomfortable truths about the Bible God."  Beliefnet members are not to become THE debate and should not be made the topic of discussion.


World Citizen, moderator
Sacred Texts/The Bible

Blessed is he who mingleth with all men in a spirit of utmost kindliness and love. ~Baha'u'llah
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