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Switch to Forum Live View John 1:1- what does it REALLY mean?
3 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2012 - 12:43AM #21
Namchuck
Posts: 11,802

Jan 20, 2012 -- 10:57PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Jan 15, 2012 -- 9:09PM, theMadJW wrote:



the MadJW: If we take it as taught bt CHURCHianity, that not only is Jesus the Word, but also God, then we can interpret it as saying-


In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with Jesus, and Jesus was Jesus!



iama:  John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word / (Christ Jesus), and the Word / (Christ Jesus) was WITH God, and the Word / (Christ Jesus) WAS God. The same / (Christ Jesus) was in the beginning WITH God."


Throughout John's Gospel,  Christ Jesus speaks to His God-Father "Who is in Heaven," and concerning God-Holy Spirit "Whom I shall send in My name."


John's Gospel was recorded:


Jhn 20:31     
"But these are written, that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you might have life through His name."


John, the apostle / disciple of Christ Jesus, was the only disciple who did not run away and remained close to Christ Jesus throughout His arrest, trials, crucifixion.  He knew that Christ Jesus was God, The Son.


At Christ Jesus' baptism all three Persons of the Godhead are present:


1. Christ Jesus, God-Son being baptise,


2. God-Holy Spirit descending upon Christ Jesus in the form of a dove, and


3. God-Father stating "This is my beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased."




*******************************************************************************



The so-called 'Gospel of John' was written decades after the events it was supposedly 'eye-witness' to.


The additonal fact that it was written at a time when there was much confusion among Jesus' followers as to who he actually was might signify the motivation behind it.


Whoever wrote it (its changing style would indicate more than one author) was certainly no simple fisherman.


As the author(s) readily confess, it was penned for propagandistic purposes (John 20:31).





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3 years ago  ::  Jan 21, 2012 - 6:42AM #22
Annie_alive
Posts: 310

Jan 18, 2012 -- 11:28AM, theMadJW wrote:


Jan 17, 2012 -- 10:56PM, Annie_alive wrote:


Jan 15, 2012 -- 10:56PM, theMadJW wrote:


Does John 1:1 mean Jesus was WITH 2 Other Gods?





I don't know.   I know there is a lot of controversy over this verse, (as with most of the bible).


Perhaps you could let us know what your interpretation of this verse is.


Asking questions like you do without further comment seems to me like you might be hoping to catch someone out as having an incorrect answer.  Then you might just be able to correct them with your superior knowledge of the subject.  Perhaps.


Of course, I could be wrong, after reading all your threads here in "The Bible" forum, I don't know much about you, other than you don't like Namchuck.


So please, inform us of your own thoughts on John 1:1.




Mad: Thanks, Annie! It's so nice to have at least YOU here to have an intelligent conversation with!


No thanks, I pass. I can see where you are going with this. I've visited your website, and I'm not impressed.


Those words mean one of two things. Either (1) That the Word is LITERALLY God, or (2) That he REPRESENTS Him.


The Facts:


1-The Title "the WORD" indicates he SPEAKS for God


2-"OF" God and "WITH" God show he is not literally the same Person(s), and, finally


3- The ENTIRE context of the book of John reveals meaning #2


(See the sections of John at- http://themadjw.lifeyo.com/jehovah/


Thus, for one who is honest, it is clear that Jesus "was" God as Moses was (only to a much greater degree)-


Exodus 7:1 -And Jehovah said to Moses,
See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh;
and Aaron thy brother shall be thy
prophet.-Darby





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3 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2012 - 10:12AM #23
theMadJW
Posts: 49

Jan 21, 2012 -- 6:42AM, Annie_alive wrote:


Jan 18, 2012 -- 11:28AM, theMadJW wrote:


Jan 17, 2012 -- 10:56PM, Annie_alive wrote:


Jan 15, 2012 -- 10:56PM, theMadJW wrote:


Does John 1:1 mean Jesus was WITH 2 Other Gods?





I don't know.   I know there is a lot of controversy over this verse, (as with most of the bible).


Perhaps you could let us know what your interpretation of this verse is.


Asking questions like you do without further comment seems to me like you might be hoping to catch someone out as having an incorrect answer.  Then you might just be able to correct them with your superior knowledge of the subject.  Perhaps.


Of course, I could be wrong, after reading all your threads here in "The Bible" forum, I don't know much about you, other than you don't like Namchuck.


So please, inform us of your own thoughts on John 1:1.




Mad: Thanks, Annie! It's so nice to have at least YOU here to have an intelligent conversation with!


No thanks, I pass. I can see where you are going with this. I've visited your website, and I'm not impressed.


Those words mean one of two things. Either (1) That the Word is LITERALLY God, or (2) That he REPRESENTS Him.


The Facts:


1-The Title "the WORD" indicates he SPEAKS for God


2-"OF" God and "WITH" God show he is not literally the same Person(s), and, finally


3- The ENTIRE context of the book of John reveals meaning #2


(See the sections of John at- http://themadjw.lifeyo.com/jehovah/


Thus, for one who is honest, it is clear that Jesus "was" God as Moses was (only to a much greater degree)-


Exodus 7:1 -And Jehovah said to Moses,
See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh;
and Aaron thy brother shall be thy
prophet.-Darby









I MEANT that. Too bad- you were the only sign of life here- and it was a false alarm!

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 24, 2012 - 6:41PM #24
Annie_alive
Posts: 310

Jan 24, 2012 -- 10:12AM, theMadJW wrote:





I MEANT that. Too bad- you were the only sign of life here- and it was a false alarm!




Perhaps you could think about why there are not too many takers here.     There are other boards where you can discuss JW and christian theology.


I am not a bible believer.

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1 year ago  ::  Jul 04, 2013 - 11:22PM #25
Vestfold
Posts: 2


 


Your first mistake is in trying to understand this passage in English, which badly mistreats the meaning. For the “word” substitute “logos”; the same logos used by Heraclitus and various Jewish Hellenistic writers, prominently Philo of Alexandria. I suggest that you first read up on the concept. Basic information can be found online at www.iep.utm.edu/philo/, The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy. The ultimate source is Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, 10 Volumes Edited by Gerhard Kittel, translated by G.W. Bromiley Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co. / 1964 / Hardcover Find Logos in the Lambda volume, which I believe is volume 4. That source contains citations illustrating the usage of the word and development of the theological concept throughout the New Testament period and beyond. When you assimilate that information you will have better understanding to ask further questions.


 


 


 



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1 year ago  ::  Jul 05, 2013 - 12:51PM #26
teilhard
Posts: 51,872

EVERY Letter and Word and Chapter and Book in The Sacred Writings comes from and with a CONTEXT ...


Not least, that Context ALWAYS includes the Fact that ALL of The Sacred Writings were and are, "from Faith; for Faith" ...

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1 year ago  ::  Jul 05, 2013 - 1:23PM #27
Pam34
Posts: 2,680

ahem - I have no particular dog in this fight, but -



'the word' to the Jewish world at that time would mean 'the Torah' and it was a belief (more of a doctrine?) that 'the Torah' in heaven pre-existed creation and was a kind of blueprint for creation and so forth - there's quite a lot of material on the topic within certain branches of mystical Judaism if anybody is interested  -



as for the phrase 'the word was God', that's an aspect of, I suppose, panentheism, which postulates that everything is God and nothing is not God. Another mystical approach.



John 1:1-6 reads very 'mystically', even to the casual observer, in my opinion. There is no compelling reason to stick Jesus in there at all, unless you think the verses already apply.


Blessed are You, HaShem, Who blesses the years.
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1 year ago  ::  Jul 08, 2013 - 2:05AM #28
Namchuck
Posts: 11,802

Within Christianity, John 1:1 seems to mean little more than 'I am the rut, the dogma, and the hereafter'.

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