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Switch to Forum Live View Just WHO is the One Jesus said was "the ONLY true God"? - John 17:3
3 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2012 - 8:17AM #21
JRT
Posts: 340

Jan 15, 2012 -- 4:21PM, theMadJW wrote:


   Two refernces exist, plus THOUSANDS who were persecuted, many as entire families WILLINGLY thrown to the Lions, the fact that people in every land have been inspired by his teachings, and the stark honesty found in the biblkical accounts all INDICATE (not PROVE) he existed.



You might be startled to realize that bible scholar Bart Ehrman agrees with you:



www.huffingtonpost.com/bart-d-ehrman/did...


I think that the issue a great many people become hung up on is in making the necessary distinction between the historical person of Jesus and the Christ of faith that we have made of him. I much prefer the former to the latter.

Moderated by world citizen on Mar 23, 2012 - 12:34PM
the floggings will continue until morale improves
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3 years ago  ::  Mar 22, 2012 - 8:30AM #22
JRT
Posts: 340

A whole variety of people in every age have lived and died on the basis of their religious views, not just Christians. But people ready and willing to die for their faith doesn't make their views automatically true.



I certainly agree. Hypatia of Alexandria also agrees with you:


Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fancies. To teach superstitions as truths is a most terrible thing. The child mind accepts and believes them, and only through great pain and perhaps tragedy can he be in after years relieved of them. In fact, men will fight for a superstition quite as quickly as for a living truth --- often more so, since a superstition is so intangible you cannot get at it to refute it, but truth is a point of view, and so is changeable.



After Christianity had allied itself with Roman Imperial power under Constantine, the persecuted became the persecutors and they were very good at it in the centuries that followed. Hypatia herself was attacked by a mob of Christian monks and was torn apart on the streets of Alexandria.


 


 

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 11, 2012 - 4:53PM #23
five_point_dad
Posts: 3,650

The New World Translation of John 17:3 is ridiculous.  Even the Jehovah's Witnesses own Kingdom Interlinear doesn't agree with it.  If you must really "take in knowledge," how much is enough?  The thief on the cross only heard very little as did the people on the Day of Pentecost.  It says nothing about "taking in knowledge" in Romans 10:9-10. 


The fact that God is called "The Only True God" is a Greek word meaning "original"; He was not a copy.  If that meant that Jesus is not God, then I Cor. 8:4 says, using the same word, that Jesus is the only Lord.  Does that mean the Father can't be Lord?  If you use Watchtower logic it certainly does.


Besides I John 5:20 uses the same phrase "only true God" speaking of Christ. 


The Watchtower had, at one time, two outstanding Greek scholars: Nicholas Kip and Greg Stafford.  Both of these gentlemen have left the Watchtower organization saying that it doesn't teach what the Bible teaches and there are no more Greek scholars left in the Organization; they have either all left or died.  The theology of the Watchtower is in shambles and its scholars has vanished. 


 

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 27, 2012 - 6:31AM #24
duaneg
Posts: 37

Jun 11, 2012 -- 4:53PM, five_point_dad wrote:


The New World Translation of John 17:3 is ridiculous.  Even the Jehovah's Witnesses own Kingdom Interlinear doesn't agree with it.  If you must really "take in knowledge," how much is enough?  The thief on the cross only heard very little as did the people on the Day of Pentecost.  It says nothing about "taking in knowledge" in Romans 10:9-10. 


The fact that God is called "The Only True God" is a Greek word meaning "original"; He was not a copy.  If that meant that Jesus is not God, then I Cor. 8:4 says, using the same word, that Jesus is the only Lord.  Does that mean the Father can't be Lord?  If you use Watchtower logic it certainly does.


Besides I John 5:20 uses the same phrase "only true God" speaking of Christ. 


The Watchtower had, at one time, two outstanding Greek scholars: Nicholas Kip and Greg Stafford.  Both of these gentlemen have left the Watchtower organization saying that it doesn't teach what the Bible teaches and there are no more Greek scholars left in the Organization; they have either all left or died.  The theology of the Watchtower is in shambles and its scholars has vanished. 


 





John 17:3 plainly says that Jesus' Father is the only true God.  The original is the true.   Anyone or anything else is, as Paul says in 1 Cor 8: 5 are just "called gods."  Some worship their "belly." (Phil 3:19)


When Paul says in 1 Cor 8:6 that "there is one Lord Jesus Christ," as well as "one God the Father," there is no contradiction.  How can both be "Lord?"  The Father is our only "Lord God" while Jesus is the only "Lord Christ."  We are to have only one as our God (the Father, the only true God) and only one as "Lord Christ," Jesus the only begotten Son of the one and only true God.  The Father is NOT "Lord Christ," and the Son is NOT "Lord God."


In 1 John 5:20 the Father is the true God and Jesus is his Son.  Read it in the KJV. 

(1 Tim 2:5 KJV)  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
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