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Switch to Forum Live View the writings attributed to saul of tarsus are illicit and need to be disregarded by the faithful-
3 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2012 - 6:36PM #41
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,854


iama: peter_d_roman, I just finished reading through your thread.  You stated that you are a new believer.  From Genesis to Revelation, there is one complete historically accurate and progressing account of our Creator-God's will and purposes for His having created.


1. Our Creator-God, "from before the foundation of the world," planned and purposed to become Emmanuel / "God with us," in order to redeem us / buy us back from our "father, Satan."


2. He created a perfect Earth / Universe environment for His created humans, made "in OUR image," and "after OUR likeness."  The plural "OUR" refers to The Trinity of Persons existing in the one Godhead.


3. Our Creator-God's design for the human being was "the likeness" into which He, "from before the foundation of the world," planned to incarnate into / to tabernacle with human beings.


4. Adam, the federal head of all humans, was tested regarding his allegiance to his Creator-God vs Satan.


5. Knowing that Adam would "eat of the fruit" of the forbidden tree, and plunge The Creation into "the bondage of death," ensured that "all would be in Adam," so that "all could be, also, in Christ Jesus," the second Adam / the human being who would never turn His being away from God's will.  Christ Jesus lived a 100% perfect human being existence.  He could, therefore, die the perfect human being existence, bearing our "wages of sin is death" bondage, and resurrect.  He is our all that we need; He is the perfect Savior of human beings. 


6. In order to incarnate, to accomplish His salvation of human beings, our Creator-God from Adam to Christ Jesus being born, chose a righteous line of human beings / ancestors of Christ Jesus, through whom He would "in the fulness of time," be born.  Post The Flood, about 300 years, our Creator-God called Abram / Abraham and his childless wife, Sarah, and their miraculously born son, Isaac. 


7. The prophet Daniel gives a timeline for Israel's coming Messiah / God-Son, incarnate, and this prophecy is fulfilled, leaving "one week of years," remaining. That "one week of years," is called "The Time of Jacob's Troubles" or "The Great Tribulation."  Our Creator-God has NOT thrown away His "Chosen People" / Israel.  The Church is NOT a replacement for Israel!


8. This "Age of Grace" / "The Times of The Gentiles" will soon come to an end, and Israel's time clock will begin counting down their remaining "week of years" / seven years.  The Church will no longer be the focus, because The Church / The Body of Christ will have been removed from The Earth at The Rapture.


9. You are quoting Christ Jesus as stating, "upon this ROCK I will build my church." The ROCK is NOT the Apostle Peter, but is Christ Jesus, the One Whom Peter described as "Thou art The Christ, The Son of the living God." It was Peter's declaration truth, and not Peter, himself, Who was The ROCK Jesus was referring to.


10. Regarding The Apostle Paul, you are rejecting what Luke records as following:



APOSTLE PAUL

Act 26:12-18     
"Whereupon as I (Saul / Paul) went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, At midday, O king (Agrippa), I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.


And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, 'Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me? [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks.'


And I said, 'Who art thou, Lord?'


And He said, 'I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in Me.'"


11.  You need to revise your status of both Peter and Paul.  Our Creator-God / Savior, chose them BOTH, for specific purposes.  Both Christ Jesus and Peter validate the FORGIVEN sinner, Saul / Paul and his missionary ministries and Epistles!


12. Here are statements of The Apostle Peter regarding The Apostle Paul:



2Pe 3:14-18     
"Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,


which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.


But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen."



.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
.
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2012 - 7:47PM #42
Namchuck
Posts: 11,869

There's your Sunday Sermon from iama, Peter_d_roman, chock full of historical inaccuracies and all sorts of unjustified assumptions.


Mind you, iama has never been predisposed to letting the truth spoil a good story. 



Jan 7, 2012 -- 6:36PM, iamachildofhis wrote:



iama: peter_d_roman, I just finished reading through your thread.  You stated that you are a new believer.  From Genesis to Revelation, there is one complete historically accurate and progressing account of our Creator-God's will and purposes for His having created.


1. Our Creator-God, "from before the foundation of the world," planned and purposed to become Emmanuel / "God with us," in order to redeem us / buy us back from our "father, Satan."


2. He created a perfect Earth / Universe environment for His created humans, made "in OUR image," and "after OUR likeness."  The plural "OUR" refers to The Trinity of Persons existing in the one Godhead.


3. Our Creator-God's design for the human being was "the likeness" into which He, "from before the foundation of the world," planned to incarnate into / to tabernacle with human beings.


4. Adam, the federal head of all humans, was tested regarding his allegiance to his Creator-God vs Satan.


5. Knowing that Adam would "eat of the fruit" of the forbidden tree, and plunge The Creation into "the bondage of death," ensured that "all would be in Adam," so that "all could be, also, in Christ Jesus," the second Adam / the human being who would never turn His being away from God's will.  Christ Jesus lived a 100% perfect human being existence.  He could, therefore, die the perfect human being existence, bearing our "wages of sin is death" bondage, and resurrect.  He is our all that we need; He is the perfect Savior of human beings. 


6. In order to incarnate, to accomplish His salvation of human beings, our Creator-God from Adam to Christ Jesus being born, chose a righteous line of human beings / ancestors of Christ Jesus, through whom He would "in the fulness of time," be born.  Post The Flood, about 300 years, our Creator-God called Abram / Abraham and his childless wife, Sarah, and their miraculously born son, Isaac. 


7. The prophet Daniel gives a timeline for Israel's coming Messiah / God-Son, incarnate, and this prophecy is fulfilled, leaving "one week of years," remaining. That "one week of years," is called "The Time of Jacob's Troubles" or "The Great Tribulation."  Our Creator-God has NOT thrown away His "Chosen People" / Israel.  The Church is NOT a replacement for Israel!


8. This "Age of Grace" / "The Times of The Gentiles" will soon come to an end, and Israel's time clock will begin counting down their remaining "week of years" / seven years.  The Church will no longer be the focus, because The Church / The Body of Christ will have been removed from The Earth at The Rapture.


9. You are quoting Christ Jesus as stating, "upon this ROCK I will build my church." The ROCK is NOT the Apostle Peter, but is Christ Jesus, the One Whom Peter described as "Thou art The Christ, The Son of the living God." It was Peter's declaration truth, and not Peter, himself, Who was The ROCK Jesus was referring to.


10. Regarding The Apostle Paul, you are rejecting what Luke records as following:



APOSTLE PAUL

Act 26:12-18     
"Whereupon as I (Saul / Paul) went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, At midday, O king (Agrippa), I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.


And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, 'Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me? [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks.'


And I said, 'Who art thou, Lord?'


And He said, 'I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in Me.'"


11.  You need to revise your status of both Peter and Paul.  Our Creator-God / Savior, chose them BOTH, for specific purposes.  Both Christ Jesus and Peter validate the FORGIVEN sinner, Saul / Paul and his missionary ministries and Epistles!


12. Here are statements of The Apostle Peter regarding The Apostle Paul:



2Pe 3:14-18     
"Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,


which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.


But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen."



.





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3 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2012 - 7:54PM #43
Peter_d_roman
Posts: 5,999


thanks child of his for the honor of reading my thread and giving such a detailed reply.



at the risk of being seen as contrary i must now correct a few of your posted views-



firstly i have been a dedicated believer and committed practicener to My Savior Brother and His New Covenant for a while now. my faith walk beginning  as an infant baptized into the rcc and it and my faith  has grown from there.



next and much more importantly  i must respectfully disagree with your loving view of " the bible" as a whole and as you presented it in your reply. i understan that that is the accipted account held by the vast majarity of modern day believers-



but it is just as wrong as it could be and easy to see it as so when its pedigree and full history is examined without  prejudices.



yes the old testament writings were very important ways for My PaPa YAHWEH to get His Word to us before His Son Redeemed our sin state.



but that was before the New Covenant that began with My Savior Brother Authorship of The New Covenant scribed in-violet with His Holy Innocent Blood as the perminant media read most clearly upon our living hearts came into being some 2012 years ago now.



just as jerm 31/ 31-34 say would one day be the case reprinted below written 750 years before The Redemption Event  says  from then on for all the New Covenant Practitioners OUR LIVING HEARTS  is the only place we can find Our Father YEHWEHS Living Word.



 31 "The day is coming," says the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah.32 This    covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I    took them by the hand and brought them out of the land of Egypt. They    broke that covenant, though I loved them as a husband loves his wife,"    says the LORD.
  33 "But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day," says the LORD.    "I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them  on   their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.34 And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, 'You should know the LORD.' For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already," says the LORD. "And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins." (Jeremiah 31, NLT, rse).



so not only is  your  the paper bible " NOT YEHWEHS LIVING WORD"-



putting ones faith into  it blocks The Living Words Flow into the believers heart.



respectfully rendered



peter the roman


>p



Jan 7, 2012 -- 6:36PM, iamachildofhis wrote:



iama: peter_d_roman, I just finished reading through your thread.  You stated that you are a new believer.  From Genesis to Revelation, there is one complete historically accurate and progressing account of our Creator-God's will and purposes for His having created.


1. Our Creator-God, "from before the foundation of the world," planned and purposed to become Emmanuel / "God with us," in order to redeem us / buy us back from our "father, Satan."


2. He created a perfect Earth / Universe environment for His created humans, made "in OUR image," and "after OUR likeness."  The plural "OUR" refers to The Trinity of Persons existing in the one Godhead.


3. Our Creator-God's design for the human being was "the likeness" into which He, "from before the foundation of the world," planned to incarnate into / to tabernacle with human beings.


4. Adam, the federal head of all humans, was tested regarding his allegiance to his Creator-God vs Satan.


5. Knowing that Adam would "eat of the fruit" of the forbidden tree, and plunge The Creation into "the bondage of death," ensured that "all would be in Adam," so that "all could be, also, in Christ Jesus," the second Adam / the human being who would never turn His being away from God's will.  Christ Jesus lived a 100% perfect human being existence.  He could, therefore, die the perfect human being existence, bearing our "wages of sin is death" bondage, and resurrect.  He is our all that we need; He is the perfect Savior of human beings. 


6. In order to incarnate, to accomplish His salvation of human beings, our Creator-God from Adam to Christ Jesus being born, chose a righteous line of human beings / ancestors of Christ Jesus, through whom He would "in the fulness of time," be born.  Post The Flood, about 300 years, our Creator-God called Abram / Abraham and his childless wife, Sarah, and their miraculously born son, Isaac. 


7. The prophet Daniel gives a timeline for Israel's coming Messiah / God-Son, incarnate, and this prophecy is fulfilled, leaving "one week of years," remaining. That "one week of years," is called "The Time of Jacob's Troubles" or "The Great Tribulation."  Our Creator-God has NOT thrown away His "Chosen People" / Israel.  The Church is NOT a replacement for Israel!


8. This "Age of Grace" / "The Times of The Gentiles" will soon come to an end, and Israel's time clock will begin counting down their remaining "week of years" / seven years.  The Church will no longer be the focus, because The Church / The Body of Christ will have been removed from The Earth at The Rapture.


9. You are quoting Christ Jesus as stating, "upon this ROCK I will build my church." The ROCK is NOT the Apostle Peter, but is Christ Jesus, the One Whom Peter described as "Thou art The Christ, The Son of the living God." It was Peter's declaration truth, and not Peter, himself, Who was The ROCK Jesus was referring to.


10. Regarding The Apostle Paul, you are rejecting what Luke records as following:



APOSTLE PAUL

Act 26:12-18     
"Whereupon as I (Saul / Paul) went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, At midday, O king (Agrippa), I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.


And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, 'Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me? [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks.'


And I said, 'Who art thou, Lord?'


And He said, 'I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in Me.'"


11.  You need to revise your status of both Peter and Paul.  Our Creator-God / Savior, chose them BOTH, for specific purposes.  Both Christ Jesus and Peter validate the FORGIVEN sinner, Saul / Paul and his missionary ministries and Epistles!


12. Here are statements of The Apostle Peter regarding The Apostle Paul:



2Pe 3:14-18     
"Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,


which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.


But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen."



.





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3 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2012 - 8:10PM #44
Namchuck
Posts: 11,869

A return sermon just as permeated with errors and illogic as the one it is responding to, except the first one was less piously pompous, had far fewer spelling mistakes, and possessed vastly better grammar.


On top of this, and against a promise made to try harder, it never once mentioned Saul/Paul (the theme of the thread) and went on - again - about some hypothetical "new covenant" notion based on a complete misreading of a few passages from the Book of Jeremiah! 


And we know that you are not a "dedicated believer and committed practitioner" of Christ because you bear false witness and are prone to telling fibs (both of which you accuse Saul/Paul of).


If ever a post deserved trashing, it is this one of yours, Peter_d_roman.



Jan 7, 2012 -- 7:54PM, Peter_d_roman wrote:



thanks child of his for the honor of reading my thread and giving such a detailed reply.



at the risk of being seen as contrary i must now correct a few of your posted views-



firstly i have been a dedicated believer and committed practicener to My Savior Brother and His New Covenant for a while now. my faith walk beginning  as an infant baptized into the rcc and it and my faith  has grown from there.



next and much more importantly  i must respectfully disagree with your loving view of " the bible" as a whole and as you presented it in your reply. i understan that that is the accipted account held by the vast majarity of modern day believers-



but it is just as wrong as it could be and easy to see it as so when its pedigree and full history is examined without  prejudices.



yes the old testament writings were very important ways for My PaPa YAHWEH to get His Word to us before His Son Redeemed our sin state.



but that was before the New Covenant that began with My Savior Brother Authorship of The New Covenant scribed in-violet with His Holy Innocent Blood as the perminant media read most clearly upon our living hearts came into being some 2012 years ago now.



just as jerm 31/ 31-34 say would one day be the case reprinted below written 750 years before The Redemption Event  says  from then on for all the New Covenant Practitioners OUR LIVING HEARTS  is the only place we can find Our Father YEHWEHS Living Word.



 31 "The day is coming," says the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah.32 This    covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I    took them by the hand and brought them out of the land of Egypt. They    broke that covenant, though I loved them as a husband loves his wife,"    says the LORD.
  33 "But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day," says the LORD.    "I will put my instructions deep within them, and I will write them  on   their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.34 And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their relatives, saying, 'You should know the LORD.' For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will know me already," says the LORD. "And I will forgive their wickedness, and I will never again remember their sins." (Jeremiah 31, NLT, rse).



so not only is  your  the paper bible " NOT YEHWEHS LIVING WORD"-



putting ones faith into  it blocks The Living Words Flow into the believers heart.



respectfully rendered



peter the roman


>p



Jan 7, 2012 -- 6:36PM, iamachildofhis wrote:



iama: peter_d_roman, I just finished reading through your thread.  You stated that you are a new believer.  From Genesis to Revelation, there is one complete historically accurate and progressing account of our Creator-God's will and purposes for His having created.


1. Our Creator-God, "from before the foundation of the world," planned and purposed to become Emmanuel / "God with us," in order to redeem us / buy us back from our "father, Satan."


2. He created a perfect Earth / Universe environment for His created humans, made "in OUR image," and "after OUR likeness."  The plural "OUR" refers to The Trinity of Persons existing in the one Godhead.


3. Our Creator-God's design for the human being was "the likeness" into which He, "from before the foundation of the world," planned to incarnate into / to tabernacle with human beings.


4. Adam, the federal head of all humans, was tested regarding his allegiance to his Creator-God vs Satan.


5. Knowing that Adam would "eat of the fruit" of the forbidden tree, and plunge The Creation into "the bondage of death," ensured that "all would be in Adam," so that "all could be, also, in Christ Jesus," the second Adam / the human being who would never turn His being away from God's will.  Christ Jesus lived a 100% perfect human being existence.  He could, therefore, die the perfect human being existence, bearing our "wages of sin is death" bondage, and resurrect.  He is our all that we need; He is the perfect Savior of human beings. 


6. In order to incarnate, to accomplish His salvation of human beings, our Creator-God from Adam to Christ Jesus being born, chose a righteous line of human beings / ancestors of Christ Jesus, through whom He would "in the fulness of time," be born.  Post The Flood, about 300 years, our Creator-God called Abram / Abraham and his childless wife, Sarah, and their miraculously born son, Isaac. 


7. The prophet Daniel gives a timeline for Israel's coming Messiah / God-Son, incarnate, and this prophecy is fulfilled, leaving "one week of years," remaining. That "one week of years," is called "The Time of Jacob's Troubles" or "The Great Tribulation."  Our Creator-God has NOT thrown away His "Chosen People" / Israel.  The Church is NOT a replacement for Israel!


8. This "Age of Grace" / "The Times of The Gentiles" will soon come to an end, and Israel's time clock will begin counting down their remaining "week of years" / seven years.  The Church will no longer be the focus, because The Church / The Body of Christ will have been removed from The Earth at The Rapture.


9. You are quoting Christ Jesus as stating, "upon this ROCK I will build my church." The ROCK is NOT the Apostle Peter, but is Christ Jesus, the One Whom Peter described as "Thou art The Christ, The Son of the living God." It was Peter's declaration truth, and not Peter, himself, Who was The ROCK Jesus was referring to.


10. Regarding The Apostle Paul, you are rejecting what Luke records as following:



APOSTLE PAUL

Act 26:12-18     
"Whereupon as I (Saul / Paul) went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, At midday, O king (Agrippa), I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.


And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, 'Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me? [it is] hard for thee to kick against the pricks.'


And I said, 'Who art thou, Lord?'


And He said, 'I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and [from] the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in Me.'"


11.  You need to revise your status of both Peter and Paul.  Our Creator-God / Savior, chose them BOTH, for specific purposes.  Both Christ Jesus and Peter validate the FORGIVEN sinner, Saul / Paul and his missionary ministries and Epistles!


12. Here are statements of The Apostle Peter regarding The Apostle Paul:



2Pe 3:14-18     
"Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,


which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.


But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen."



.









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3 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2012 - 8:23PM #45
Peter_d_roman
Posts: 5,999


>p

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2012 - 8:42PM #46
Namchuck
Posts: 11,869

Jan 7, 2012 -- 8:23PM, Peter_d_roman wrote:



>p




Why register a post if you have nothing to say? Or are you just being childish on top of all your other un-Christian indiscretions?

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2012 - 9:22PM #47
Namchuck
Posts: 11,869

It is interesting to note, and fully substantiated in the Gospels, that Jesus's relative benevolence toward the things of everyday life went hand in hand with praise for the practice of gentleness. Two sentences (Mark 7:15 and 10:7) show Jesus unopposed to marriage and indifferent to the ascetic ideal, and you'll search in vain for any rigid prescriptions concerning the body, sexuality, or sensuality.


On the other hand, Saul/Paul transforms Jesus's silence on these questions into a deafening din thundering out hatred for the body, of women, and of life.


So don't, iama, try to convince me that there is a consistent picture presented in your vaunted perception of the Bible. This, and a thousand other examples one could give, identifies that this is certainly not the case.

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2012 - 10:12PM #48
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,854

Jan 7, 2012 -- 9:22PM, Namchuck wrote:



Namchuck: It is interesting to note, and fully substantiated in the Gospels, that Jesus's relative benevolence toward the things of everyday life went hand in hand with praise for the practice of gentleness. Two sentences (Mark 7:15 and 10:7) show Jesus unopposed to marriage and indifferent to the ascetic ideal, and you'll search in vain for any rigid prescriptions concerning the body, sexuality, or sensuality.


On the other hand, Saul/Paul transforms Jesus's silence on these questions into a deafening din thundering out hatred for the body, of women, and of life.


So don't, iama, try to convince me that there is a consistent picture presented in your vaunted perception of the Bible. This, and a thousand other examples one could give, identifies that this is certainly not the case.



iama:  What is the basis / reason / rationality, for your rejection of Christianity?



Would you call Jesus silent, in the following:



Mat 5:28     
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."



.

The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
.
"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
.
Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2012 - 10:22PM #49
Namchuck
Posts: 11,869

Jan 8, 2012 -- 10:12PM, iamachildofhis wrote:


Jan 7, 2012 -- 9:22PM, Namchuck wrote:



Namchuck: It is interesting to note, and fully substantiated in the Gospels, that Jesus's relative benevolence toward the things of everyday life went hand in hand with praise for the practice of gentleness. Two sentences (Mark 7:15 and 10:7) show Jesus unopposed to marriage and indifferent to the ascetic ideal, and you'll search in vain for any rigid prescriptions concerning the body, sexuality, or sensuality.


On the other hand, Saul/Paul transforms Jesus's silence on these questions into a deafening din thundering out hatred for the body, of women, and of life.


So don't, iama, try to convince me that there is a consistent picture presented in your vaunted perception of the Bible. This, and a thousand other examples one could give, identifies that this is certainly not the case.



iama:  What is the basis / reason / rationality, for your rejection of Christianity?


You will find such reasons given within my posts.


Among them, that Christianity - like most other religions - is grounded in baroque assumptions for which there isn't a scrap of evidence. There is nothing meritocratic about its beliefs at all.



Would you call Jesus silent, in the following:



Mat 5:28     
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."


No, not at all, but there is no indication in this quote of anything akin to the body, life, and women-hating ravings of the hysteric Saul/Paul.





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3 years ago  ::  Jan 12, 2012 - 5:53PM #50
iamachildofhis
Posts: 10,854

Jan 8, 2012 -- 10:22PM, Namchuck wrote:



Namchuck: It is interesting to note, and fully substantiated in the Gospels, that Jesus's relative benevolence toward the things of everyday life went hand in hand with praise for the practice of gentleness. Two sentences (Mark 7:15 and 10:7) show Jesus unopposed to marriage and indifferent to the ascetic ideal, and you'll search in vain for any rigid prescriptions concerning the body, sexuality, or sensuality.


On the other hand, Saul/Paul transforms Jesus's silence on these questions into a deafening din thundering out hatred for the body, of women, and of life.


So don't, iama, try to convince me that there is a consistent picture presented in your vaunted perception of the Bible. This, and a thousand other examples one could give, identifies that this is certainly not the case.


iama:  What is the basis / reason / rationality, for your rejection of Christianity?


Namchuck: You will find such reasons given within my posts.


Among them, that Christianity - like most other religions - is grounded in baroque assumptions for which there isn't a scrap of evidence. There is nothing meritocratic about its beliefs at all.



iama:  You seem to prefer to make hint-type-statements, instead of speaking directly concerning your chosen stance leading to your unbelief point of view, currently, held.


Truth is evidenced.


The "merit" belongs, only, to our Creator-God.


iama: Would you call Jesus silent, in the following:



Mat 5:28     
"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."


Namchuck: No, not at all, but there is no indication in this quote of anything akin to the body, life, and women-hating ravings of the hysteric Saul/Paul.



iama: The practice of adultery was the charge of the men who brought "the woman taken in adultery," in the following account.  Where was the man, who, presumably, was, also, "taken in adultery"? "They say unto Him, 'Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now, Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?'"


What do you gather from the context, that Jesus "with His finger wrote on the ground?"


"So when they continued asking Him, He lifted up Himself, and said unto them, 'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.'"


"And again He stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard (iama: What do you understand by this: "they which heard"? Did they hear with their ears or with their consciences?) went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst."


"When Jesus had lifted up Himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, 'Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath [did] no man concemned [condemn] thee?'


She said, 'No man, Lord.'


And Jesus said unto her, 'Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.'" John 8:10,11


Jesus Christ was interacting with His fellow Jews.  He knew and they knew what the Law of Moses stated.  Why didn't he audibly speak, but instead, chose to write upon the ground? Why did the men leave "beginning at the eldest, even unto the last"?


How is it possible that Jesus could make His statement, "Neither do I condemn the: go, and sin no more"?


You are aware, I am sure, that the New Testament describes a New Covenant which is initiated by a new blood sacrifice, that of The Lamb of God. 


The Apostle Paul was a Pharisee:


Pharisee:


1) A sect that seems to have started after the Jewish exile. In addition to OT books the Pharisees recognised in oral tradition a standard of belief and life. They sought for distinction and praise by outward observance of external rites and by outward forms of piety, and such as ceremonial washings, fastings, prayers, and alms giving; and, comparatively negligent of genuine piety, they prided themselves on their fancied good works. They held strenuously to a belief in the existence of good and evil angels, and to the expectation of a Messiah; and they cherished the hope that the dead, after a preliminary experience either of reward or of penalty in Hades, would be recalled to life by him, and be requited each according to his individual deeds. In opposition to the usurped dominion of the Herods and the rule of the Romans, they stoutly upheld the theocracy and their country's cause, and possessed great influence with the common people. According to Josephus they numbered more than 6000. They were bitter enemies of Jesus and his cause; and were in turn severely rebuked by him for their avarice, ambition, hollow reliance on outward works, and affection of piety in order to gain popularity."


You, of course, know that Saul, following in the Pharisee's, above, parameters, went about rounding up Christians and hauling them off to jail, because they were Christians.  Then, because Christ Jesus stopped him in his tracks on the way to Damascus, a trip to round up more Christians, Jesus of Nazareth's causing him to become blinded, and his subsequently becoming a Christian, himself, followed. 


It took some ~3 years in the desert of Arabia, for the new Christian, Saul, to become the useful-to-Christ Jesus, The Apostle Paul. 


Therefore, your, "the body, life, and women-hating ravings of the hysteric Saul/Paul." comment seems strange to me!


Christ Jesus never did away with The Law. Indeed, He fulfilled The Law!


The Ten Commandments are the basis of all morality, WHICH Christ Jesus condensed into the two laws of love for God and for neighbor.


The lusts of the human beings causes us to continually express immorality.


Do you think that Christ Jesus dismissed immorality of human beings?




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The wonder of Christmas is that the God Who dwelt among us, now, can dwell within us. - Roy Lessin
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"Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."
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Justice is receiving what you deserve.
Mercy is NOT receiving what you deserve.
Grace is receiving what you DO NOT deserve.
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