Oct 14, 2011 -- 11:42PM, Peter_d_roman wrote:

i dont know where that last line came from- my post end with my pfish or the ps.

 

lastly maybe what is changed now in 2011 is our collective capacity to communicate as we do with the web and to understand deeper thinking and thoughts.

Well, that hardly explains anything like what you were referring to in your last post. I think your simply fobbing me off on this one, Peter_d_roman. Perhaps you hadn't given your previous claims any real thought, huh? How has the Web, for instance, given us the capacity for "deeper thinking and thoughts"? Where is the evidence for that?

Sometimes you believers play so loose with the truth.

You claimed some deep and significant event occurred in 2011 equal in its implications to the discovery of America. I want to know what that spectacular event was? Can you tell me? Or were you simply indulging in some mindless hyperbole as a substitute for something meaningful to say?

This might sound a little hostile to you, Peter_d_roman, but you did make the assertions that I think demand a response.

 

>p

 

Oct 14, 2011 -- 10:25PM, Namchuck wrote:

Oct 14, 2011 -- 6:57PM, Peter_d_roman wrote:

 

 

namchuck as far as i can asses the tree of " christian truth" began to be misshapen by the willful spiritual bad teaching attributed to the imposter pauls writings  around 65 c e.

There's little doubt that St Paul's teachings were warped and anti-human.

 

as a counter to those " teachings"  brought into the budding christian communities by safostirfic writings  and elegant but false teaching he created-  came the true apostle john wrote a " counter " of sorts to present in that noble written media The Saviors Truth as well as a sheet of velum or papyrus can hold it to those church communities already infected by pauls poison pill in writ.

We don't know that John's writings represent the "Saviors Truth". That is a matter of speculative belief. The fact is, the Gospel's are so contradictory that we will now never know just what Jesus' message actually amounted to.

 

the imposter paul hoped to keep The Saviors TRUTH hidden in plain sight as The Apostle John made HIS  LIGHT More Clearly visible to all.

Again, a matter of speculation and belief.

 

that is what was meant by the distinction of paulistic and jonathon at at our spiritual root / our faith fount.

Or, to put it in context of a bladeless knife without a handle: Pauline teachings are the blade, while John's are the handle.

 

what is unfolding now in modern christain thought is no less exciting and hopeful as was columbus " new world discovery" and yet it has been coming to the surface from the time the holy little brother from a village in northern italy called assisi  when in 1225 c e he said yes to My Savior Brothers Call to:

 

" FRANCIS WONT YOU REBUILD MY HOUSE- BECAUSE AS YOU CAN CLEANLY SEE IT IS FALLING INTO RUIN".

Joseph Smith was supposedly told something similar by a heavenly being. Mohammed even earlier.

 

and now in this age we are set to see what had been made corrupted and the vessels of great human suffering  in years past become as it was given to us to b the very fount of peace and good and love perfected.

I have no idea what you are talking about here, Peter_d_roman. Perhaps you could elucidate?

 

the new  worlds  that columbus  and his fellow discovers discovered were only discovered- found by them - located where they had been all along- not created by any of them.

Again, your analogy is a bit vague.

 

yet once they were found " the world "it self was not ever the same again.

 

the same is true for this " modern day christian thought" that following followers long dead and gone leads only to the grave that there bones now own-

 

that TO FIND LIFE- WE MUST LOOK TO AND FOLLOW THE FOREVER LIVING ONE BY HIS DIRECTED CALL TO LOVE ALL AS HE LOVES US.

There's no need to shout, Peter_d_roman, and you are entitled to your belief, but remember, it is just a belief.

 

THAT is a christains first and last and solo duty -

 

our root duty and its attent  deed -

 

NOT the  reading of scriptures on paper but The Word now found upon New Covenant Practitioners  living hearts.

 

again this WAY has been here all along but undiscovered every day for the past 2011 years-

Your kidding, of course. What has made the difference in 2011?

 

but it has only recently been "DISCOVERED ANEW" and the arguments and supporting testimony is still being formed as we move foreword deeper into This  Newly Rediscovered  Covenants SINGLE COMMANDMENT  and common christian duty and obligation-

Just when and by whom was this discovery "recently" made? I thought you said St Francis knew about it in 1225 C.E.?

 

to love all as Our Savior Brother Teacher and Friend Loves us all- perfectly.

It's a lovely belief, Peter_d_roman, but you can't claim that there is any evidence for it.

 

now i understand that to you all all hog wosh of sorts and i respect your right to feel that way, but this is how we feel about these things and i hope you will reply if you do reply in a loving kind spirit- not hostel and unneeding harsh

Well, yes, I am very skeptical of it, and I know how sensitive some believers are to having their beliefs subjected to scrutiny. Some of them are as sensitive as a sunburnt neck.

What you need to understand is that, there are some of us more concerned with truth, people for whom knowledge is more compelling than mere belief. Some people are driven by a simple will to believe. For such people, religion fulfils a basic desire to be religious. Their faith is impregnable to fact, their belief impervious to mere truth. They are capable of rejecting conclusions validly deduced from true premises whenever that conclusion contradicts tenets of their faith. Some are even inclined to justify this position to some measure. 

 

thanks for your reply.

 and a peaceful passover to all that keep it.

Shalom, and thanks.

>p

 

 

Others have attacked it, hoping to shake spiritual FAITH of its believers. This veiled attempt will not succeed either.

Now you invoke a strawman! There is no "veiled attempt" to "shake the spiritual faith" of Bible believers. There is just the plain facts of history and the - honest - and dispassionate systematic study of the Bible, which I have been involved for at least twenty years.

But I will concede one thing, the attempt to expunge the neurosis that impels men to forge gods will likely never succeed. Among other things, religion is a response to the ontological void apparent to everyone who learns that he will one day die, that his sojourn on earth is finite, and that each life represents an interlude between the nothingness that came before and the nothingness that comes after. Furthermore, a fiction does not die, an illusion never passes away, a fairy tale does not refute itself.

While I do think what I want, Peter_d_roman, my beliefs are held in strict proportion to the evidence. It's a shame that you don't abide by the same policy. I would, perhaps, regard your beliefs with more credibility if that was the case. 

I was looking forward to your explanation of the event that supposedly occurred in 2011 and that was, according to you, as impactual in its spiritual significance as the discovery of America was to geography. It seems, though, and for completely mysterious reasons, that you are reluctant to share the details of this extraordinary event.

You weren't indulging in hyperbole for Yahweh, were you, Peter_d_roman? It's not an unknown phenomenon among believers, you know?

Rather than being a "fireball" for your "Savior brother", Peter_d_roman, you're coming across, at least to me, as a bit of a fizzer. You would certainly be the first Quaker that I've met who plays with the truth in such a cavalier way.

Oct 15, 2011 -- 12:43AM, Peter_d_roman wrote:

think what you want believe as you will.

 

good nite

 

>p

 

Oct 14, 2011 -- 11:51PM, Namchuck wrote:

Oct 14, 2011 -- 11:42PM, Peter_d_roman wrote:

i dont know where that last line came from- my post end with my pfish or the ps.

 

lastly maybe what is changed now in 2011 is our collective capacity to communicate as we do with the web and to understand deeper thinking and thoughts.

Well, that hardly explains anything like what you were referring to in your last post. I think your simply fobbing me off on this one, Peter_d_roman. Perhaps you hadn't given your previous claims any real thought, huh? How has the Web, for instance, given us the capacity for "deeper thinking and thoughts"? Where is the evidence for that?

Sometimes you believers play so loose with the truth.

You claimed some deep and significant event occurred in 2011 equal in its implications to the discovery of America. I want to know what that spectacular event was? Can you tell me? Or were you simply indulging in some mindless hyperbole as a substitute for something meaningful to say?

This might sound a little hostile to you, Peter_d_roman, but you did make the assertions that I think demand a response.

 

>p

 

Oct 14, 2011 -- 10:25PM, Namchuck wrote:

Oct 14, 2011 -- 6:57PM, Peter_d_roman wrote:

 

 

namchuck as far as i can asses the tree of " christian truth" began to be misshapen by the willful spiritual bad teaching attributed to the imposter pauls writings  around 65 c e.

There's little doubt that St Paul's teachings were warped and anti-human.

 

as a counter to those " teachings"  brought into the budding christian communities by safostirfic writings  and elegant but false teaching he created-  came the true apostle john wrote a " counter " of sorts to present in that noble written media The Saviors Truth as well as a sheet of velum or papyrus can hold it to those church communities already infected by pauls poison pill in writ.

We don't know that John's writings represent the "Saviors Truth". That is a matter of speculative belief. The fact is, the Gospel's are so contradictory that we will now never know just what Jesus' message actually amounted to.

 

the imposter paul hoped to keep The Saviors TRUTH hidden in plain sight as The Apostle John made HIS  LIGHT More Clearly visible to all.

Again, a matter of speculation and belief.

 

that is what was meant by the distinction of paulistic and jonathon at at our spiritual root / our faith fount.

Or, to put it in context of a bladeless knife without a handle: Pauline teachings are the blade, while John's are the handle.

 

what is unfolding now in modern christain thought is no less exciting and hopeful as was columbus " new world discovery" and yet it has been coming to the surface from the time the holy little brother from a village in northern italy called assisi  when in 1225 c e he said yes to My Savior Brothers Call to:

 

" FRANCIS WONT YOU REBUILD MY HOUSE- BECAUSE AS YOU CAN CLEANLY SEE IT IS FALLING INTO RUIN".

Joseph Smith was supposedly told something similar by a heavenly being. Mohammed even earlier.

 

and now in this age we are set to see what had been made corrupted and the vessels of great human suffering  in years past become as it was given to us to b the very fount of peace and good and love perfected.

I have no idea what you are talking about here, Peter_d_roman. Perhaps you could elucidate?

 

the new  worlds  that columbus  and his fellow discovers discovered were only discovered- found by them - located where they had been all along- not created by any of them.

Again, your analogy is a bit vague.

 

yet once they were found " the world "it self was not ever the same again.

 

the same is true for this " modern day christian thought" that following followers long dead and gone leads only to the grave that there bones now own-

 

that TO FIND LIFE- WE MUST LOOK TO AND FOLLOW THE FOREVER LIVING ONE BY HIS DIRECTED CALL TO LOVE ALL AS HE LOVES US.

There's no need to shout, Peter_d_roman, and you are entitled to your belief, but remember, it is just a belief.

 

THAT is a christains first and last and solo duty -

 

our root duty and its attent  deed -

 

NOT the  reading of scriptures on paper but The Word now found upon New Covenant Practitioners  living hearts.

 

again this WAY has been here all along but undiscovered every day for the past 2011 years-

Your kidding, of course. What has made the difference in 2011?

 

but it has only recently been "DISCOVERED ANEW" and the arguments and supporting testimony is still being formed as we move foreword deeper into This  Newly Rediscovered  Covenants SINGLE COMMANDMENT  and common christian duty and obligation-

Just when and by whom was this discovery "recently" made? I thought you said St Francis knew about it in 1225 C.E.?

 

to love all as Our Savior Brother Teacher and Friend Loves us all- perfectly.

It's a lovely belief, Peter_d_roman, but you can't claim that there is any evidence for it.

 

now i understand that to you all all hog wosh of sorts and i respect your right to feel that way, but this is how we feel about these things and i hope you will reply if you do reply in a loving kind spirit- not hostel and unneeding harsh

Well, yes, I am very skeptical of it, and I know how sensitive some believers are to having their beliefs subjected to scrutiny. Some of them are as sensitive as a sunburnt neck.

What you need to understand is that, there are some of us more concerned with truth, people for whom knowledge is more compelling than mere belief. Some people are driven by a simple will to believe. For such people, religion fulfils a basic desire to be religious. Their faith is impregnable to fact, their belief impervious to mere truth. They are capable of rejecting conclusions validly deduced from true premises whenever that conclusion contradicts tenets of their faith. Some are even inclined to justify this position to some measure. 

 

thanks for your reply.

 and a peaceful passover to all that keep it.

Shalom, and thanks.

>p

 

 

Others have attacked it, hoping to shake spiritual FAITH of its believers. This veiled attempt will not succeed either.

Now you invoke a strawman! There is no "veiled attempt" to "shake the spiritual faith" of Bible believers. There is just the plain facts of history and the - honest - and dispassionate systematic study of the Bible, which I have been involved for at least twenty years.

But I will concede one thing, the attempt to expunge the neurosis that impels men to forge gods will likely never succeed. Among other things, religion is a response to the ontological void apparent to everyone who learns that he will one day die, that his sojourn on earth is finite, and that each life represents an interlude between the nothingness that came before and the nothingness that comes after. Furthermore, a fiction does not die, an illusion never passes away, a fairy tale does not refute itself.

Oct 15, 2011 -- 10:57AM, Peter_d_roman wrote:

 

 

Who is it that drives " the discovers" along there paths until they find what it is that has been put upon there hearts to find?

Anything from intense curiosity, money, the desire for fame, etc.

 

columbus and the new world, pasture and safer foods, curie and unseen  atomic forces, jefferson, adams, lee et el and a new way for folks to  self govern our own communities, nation.

Yes, so what? Curiosity and the desire to understand has always been a feature of our species. One can also see it in nascent ways in some other species.

 

im sure that in every case reps from one of human kinds two potential fathers played  guiding roles.

Now you are letting your a priori beliefs color the reality.

 

at the risk of making myself sound more important then i am let mt  state as simply as im able to that i feel myself on a journey of  discovery having set out to find " The Prefect Christian Truth " and  from that Perfect Christian TRUTH the New foundation of "the perfect  christian theology".

Yes, but self-delusion is also a well-known and recognised trait in our species. What is more, we now have robust empirical evidence that identifies the brain mechanisms involved.

 

also let me say here that i am convinced that i am being lead on by  YEHWEHS GIVEN Spirit- and what follows are a few of the eleiments-  markers of this budding new christian thought / theology.

This is a common claim among all kinds of religious people, even one's who have differing and even contradictory beliefs from yours.

 

*The Gifted Spirit that  has been made possible for every  human  heart to hold and grow with is gained and maintained by each person   ONLY by single hearted focus and apprenticeship  to YAHWEH'S  Son  Yesh'was  Way of faithful love as He stipulated Himself that only  Way  to be and as is found in The Single Command of  The New Covenant with  YAHWEH that He HIMSELF Wrote in His INNOCENT Blood and Sealed in His  life.

Yahweh is the desert God of an ancient tribal people, and Yeshua may not even have existed. Even if he did, his true identity is now lost in the manifold fabrications invented after he was long gone. 

 

* like a battery is drained off from its electrical charge by having  electrical loads placed upon it- so to are all human "spiritual charges  "  bled away by all the free willed  attaching of ones makes to our  hearts of " other then " what Our Savior Brother directed we His  Followers to do / to get done. conversely when we stay connected by our  conscientious efforts to the directive and principle of The New Covenant  we are also receiving in those doings  constant recharging of spiritual  cells.

What a load of pious-sounding jargon, Peter_d_roman. 

 

* form the instant of Our Savior Brother Resurrection complected  some  2011 years ago near the formally holy city of jerusalum every  human child is born completely innocent- morally, spiritually and  physically innocent and perfect. natural life on earth tends to draw  each of us human beings into imperfections in all these areas as we live  it. it is task of the community of Our Savior Brothers Followers-  faithful and loyal practitioners of His New Covenant SINGLE COMMANDMENT   to offer and to deliver restoration and healing to all our sister and  brother human beings  when they come to need them-

" SO THAT OUR FATHER YAHWEH CAN BE PROVEN TO THOSE THAT REQUIRE PROOF"-

so that there faith life may start anew.

This is mere belief and silly theology without any resonance in reality. There is no more evidence that Jesus was resurrected than that Mohammed flew to heaven on a white horse. Such beliefs are a matter of faith, and faith is the transparent admission that one's beliefs cannot stand on their own two feet. Faith is capable of believing anything.

 

looking back at the told history of " the discoverers" i noted above  let me say a bit more about our parallels and where i hope i differ from  them:

 

we all were driven to find what we found, none of us created what it  was we found, and most of those on that list as well as many many other  discoverers not named here  had there discoveries change them completely  at there physical/ emotional/ spiritual level: columbus died owning  deep regret and heart aches, madam curie died of cancer her work created  as her husband and teacher and hearts friend had to carry the guilt of  her death and loss on himself  forever , as the founder of " the  american idea" lived to see there work bring forth just another more  complex form of a tyrannical government just as all the world government  had always been varying forms of tyranny and popular repression as the    theft of the commons is done by all that can.

Now you are invoking even sillier themes and ideas that again have little or no resonance to anything real.

 

i pray that i may avoid that  last bit of this historical outcomes as  my " spiritual evolution and progression" continues to lead me on into  Our Father YEHWEHS House 100% as that is what matters to me most above  all else-

Yes, there is little doubt that you are a great believer in belief, but one only believes when one doesn't know. An honest person doesn't need the mask of belief. 

 

to think that i like moses may keep myself from My Home due to my  vanity or stupidity is a dreadful thought for me to ponder for sure.

Moses was, like Jesus, likely a mythical character. One can appreciate the story and any message it might contain without taking it literally. But such stories abound in all cultures and peoples.

 

anyway thanks for your reading this as well as my other imperfect  postings that i've made over the years that doses show - i think- my  discovery maturation and process starting with " knowing " there were  big problems with " modern christian thought and theology", seeking out  and isolating as many of those problems and attachments that  i was  lead  to find ( the ancient church  errors of christians  following  followers teachings given to those of different times and circumstances  being the most harmful), and my heartfelt abject call for all  today's  christains to get busy replacing them with The Spiritual Cure and Remedy  given to all human kind-

 

The New Covenant Directive and Hope - ALONE.

While you have deliberately dodged it, I think you still need - for perosnal integrity's sake - to identity that "event" comparable to the discovery of America that supposedly occurrred in 2011? Are the details forthcoming, or should I just put the claim down to zealousness on your part to give your beliefs some sort of solidity? 

 

peace and good and tons o'love

Same to you.

>o

Oct 16, 2011 -- 1:52AM, Peter_d_roman wrote:

 

 

thanks for your reply dude.

 

>p

You're welcome.

So, you're not going to answer the central question, then?

I kind of thought that would be the case.