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Switch to Forum Live View Once Saved, Always Saved?
3 years ago  ::  May 19, 2011 - 7:14PM #1
Jabba
Posts: 2
I've been doing some research about the idea of OSAS (once saved, always saved). I've come across many different sources, both in favor of OSAS and also against. From what I've researched, the various positions can be boiled down to one's view of salvation:  by grace or by works.

To me the Bible is clear that we are saved by grace through faith, not by works.

I'm curious what conclusions you have reached from your own study?
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3 years ago  ::  May 19, 2011 - 8:01PM #2
TemplarS
Posts: 6,259

You know, this is not really a Christian debate board-


but, that being said, I am with James: "Faith without works is dead."


Also, Jesus himself who said "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord' and do not do what I say?"


 

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3 years ago  ::  May 20, 2011 - 9:48AM #3
JRT
Posts: 338

 


Matthew 25: 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ 44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ 45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ 46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


What will you be judged on? church going? prayers? praise? correct church? correct belief? tithing? None of all that! You will be judged on your compassion and your compassion only. What does it say about us when we ignore the homeless and turn our heads so as not to see the vagrant or look down our noses at the immigrant wearing a turban? "I was sick and you looked after me" ---- how does this fit with those who fight vigorously against universal medicare?

the floggings will continue until morale improves
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3 years ago  ::  May 21, 2011 - 11:25AM #4
Brainscramble
Posts: 8,513

May 19, 2011 -- 7:14PM, Jabba wrote:

I've been doing some research about the idea of OSAS (once saved, always saved). I've come across many different sources, both in favor of OSAS and also against. From what I've researched, the various positions can be boiled down to one's view of salvation:  by grace or by works.

To me the Bible is clear that we are saved by grace through faith, not by works.

I'm curious what conclusions you have reached from your own study?




We cannot be saved by our works alone.  However, we cannot be saved by just believing either, because, "The demons believe and yet they shudder." (James 2:19)  So what is the truth?


We must have faith in Christ and then "produce works befitting repentance."  They go together---we must have BOTH.  Faith and works.  Otherwise we would have to throw the letter of James out the window and also half of Christ's words!


Jesus said that "he who endures to the end is the one that will be saved." (Matt.24:13)  "Enduring" entails doing something, doesn't it?  We have to resist doing evil.


Paul said that Christians have the privilege of God's friendship as long as we REMAIN in that relationship with Him.  It takes effort on our part to stay in that favored position. (See Colossians 1: 23 and 2: 6-8.)

I am interested in your thoughts.


Pam

Christian Witness of Jehovah, the God and Father of Christ and of us all.
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3 years ago  ::  Oct 09, 2011 - 10:34PM #5
trudging
Posts: 159

Pam is correct, faith without works is dead but Paul in Corrintheans says works without faith is just as dead, this was a disagreement between them and the thorn in Pauls side.


One speaks of the roots of faith, the other speaks about the fruits of faith, its just different perspectives of the same issue, its a 2 part deal to stay saved. Gotta have faith and works.

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3 years ago  ::  Oct 10, 2011 - 3:52PM #6
Namchuck
Posts: 10,818

One can make an argument either way about 'faith' and 'works' as far as the Bible goes. In fact, one can adopt just about any position one likes as far as that goes and invoke support from the Bible for it represents any number of divergent, and often contradictory, views.


I have often asked the question as to what standards from the Bible are we to live by and which are we to disregard, considering how contradictory some of them are? I would be interested in seeing a comprehensive and systematic set of biblical standards that does not emphasize some aspects and disregard others.

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 07, 2012 - 7:49PM #7
Rgurley4
Posts: 7,931

Sacred Texts  > The Bible  "Once Saved, Always Saved? 


...the idea of OSAS (once saved, always saved)....


The Doctrine of Eternal Security...


Can a truly saved Christ- follower lose salvation and its many benefits?


I believe the true "born again from above" Christ-follower enjoys salvation that is ETERNALLY SECURE.


BUT "Cutting+Pasting" lotsa Scripture is frowned upon by the powers that be.


We'll see how much supporting scripture that will be allowed.


1 Corinthians 3:10-15 (NIV)...Judgment of the BELIEVER'S WORKS


I HAVE BEEN saved from the PRISON of sin / death....SEE: Ephesians 8 for example..."born again from above"...redeemed
I AM BEING saved from the POWER of sin / death....SEE: 1 John 4-5..."overcome the world" ....and
I WILL BE saved from the PRESENCE of sin / death...SEE: New Heavens and Earth in Revelations


Jesus taught and practiced FORGIVENESS OF SINS to believers...NOT loss of spiritual POSITION
Mark 11: 24-25
See ALSO: Luke 6: 36-38...Jesus: Forgive, and you will be forgiven.


Jesus will never "..cast out " a true "sheep" ...believer.
John 6:35-40


Paul taught that: (NOTHING) ..."will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord...."
Romans 8: 35-39


 John 10...Jesus the God-Man holds you in His HAND...NOTHING can "snatch" you out!


The TRI-UNE God by Grace through Faith has saved the Souls and Spirits of all true believers:
1. shown uttermost LOVE...John13:1
2. keeps us to Himself.....John 28:30
3. presents us faultless in heaven...Jude 24
4. makes intercession to maintain our saved relationship...Hebrews 7:25; 1 John 2:1
5. places us into the Body of Christ / indwelt by God the Holy Spirit...1 Cor. 12:13
6. seals us until the day of redemption...Ephesians 4:30


NO ONE has EVER undone these spiritual works!


If GOOD WORKS do not follow salvation, then perhaps there was no true salvation  in the first place!

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 14, 2012 - 12:11PM #8
Lookbeyond
Posts: 578

Saved from what? Salvation is two fold! Salvation from the grave or in oTher words, resurrection is the free gift to all mankind and cannot be lost or denied. 1 Corinthians 15:19-23;40-42. We need do nothing to receive part in the resurrection...it is the free gift from God to all manKind. 


 Exaltation requires obedience to the gospel of Jesus Christ! John 17 tells us that we can be as one with Christ and our Father in heaven.....how is that to be? By accepting Christ as our Savior and redeemer and by our obedience to the commandments of God, having faith in Christ, repenting of our sins, being baptized by immersion for the remissionif our sins and receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by those in authority as was done in the Church anciently. Acts 8:14-20.


Matt.5:48. Encourages us to become perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect! How can we do this? Byand through our obedience to the gospel of Jesus Christ, for that is the purpose of the gospel to bring us reconciled to God, our Eternal Father, the fatherof our spirits! Acts 17:28-29.

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2 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 3:10AM #9
Namchuck
Posts: 10,818


Matt.5:48. Encourages us to become perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect! How can we do this? Byand through our obedience to the gospel of Jesus Christ, for that is the purpose of the gospel to bring us reconciled to God, our Eternal Father, the fatherof our spirits! Acts 17:28-29



Yes, but that's the problem, Lookbeyond. The Bible clearly shows that "our Father in Heaven" is not perfect, unless, that is, making bad mistakes and flying into genocidal rages are aspects of his "perfection".


And please don't respond with that old chestnut  - especially favored by Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses when faced with the hordes of biblical passages that throw considerable doubt on many favourite aspects of their dogma - about only believing the Bible "as far as it is translated correctly". There is nothing wrong with the translation that informs us that the deity committed global genocide and ecocide with the Great Flood. There is nothing about this story, and a hundred more like it from the Bible, that suggests perfection on the deity's part.


Salvation appears to be merely a chimera favored by those with a strong need for a powerful attachment figure in their lives. Someone, they believe, who cares for them and who will look after them. It's an understandable need, but one we really should grow out of as we mature both spiritually and intellectually.


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2 years ago  ::  Mar 15, 2012 - 4:48AM #10
Rgurley4
Posts: 7,931

Once saved, Always saved ...the Doctrine of Eternal Spiritual Securlty


Namchuck above
Salvation appears to be merely a chimera favored by those with a strong need for a powerful attachment figure in their lives.
Someone, they believe, who cares for them and who will look after them.
It's an understandable need, but one we really should grow out of as we mature both spiritually and intellectually.


Nope...Spiritual SALVATION is both SECURE and PROGRESSIVE!


The five "solas".....=  "alone's....We are :..SAVED (spiritually re-born)...INITIALLY!
1. by grace    alone
2. with faith    alone
3. in Christ     alone
4. to the glory of God    alone
5. according to the authority of Scriptures  alone


SEE: www.anevangelicalmanifesto.com/


THEN...PROGRESSIVE SALVATION:


Progressive Salvation: OF / FROM SIN....POSITION versus PRACTICE...How God views Man VS. Christian Living


I was saved from the PRISON of SIN in the PAST....simple "saving faith"...Ephesians 2:8


1. Substitution:  "in the place of"
2. Redemption:  " pay ransom, remove, and release "
3. Reconciliation:  "alienation ends"
4. Propititation:  "satisfaction with action"
5. Sin Nature Judged: "good overcomes bad"...nature changed
6. Justification:  "view: Just-if-I..never" sinned, a legal defense by the Advocate
7. Sanctification:  "goats to sheep" / "born again" / became "son" / set apart


I am being saved from the POWER of SIN in the PRESENT


....influence of the indwelling Holy Spirit, guiding "battles" against the foes.
Sanctification (setting  apart) is Progressive.
Good works are guided by the Holy Spirit to eventual Judgment of Believer's Works.
Faith put to WORK! ...Becoming more Christ - like by following His precepts and Spiritual guidance and example.


(Saving) FAITH without (spiritully guided following ) WORKS  is DEAD (judged useless).


I will be saved from the PRESENCE of SIN in the FUTURE


...Eternity in the New Heavens and Earth, with the Tri-Une God...



SEE: 2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17; Revelation 3:12; Revelation 21:1


The Spiritual Gift of Grace of God + The Spirit-Led Faith of Man = Spiritual SALVATION of Man...Past / Present / Future


 



 

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