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Switch to Forum Live View The Difficult Sayings of Jesus
3 years ago  ::  Feb 04, 2011 - 8:41AM #51
teilhard
Posts: 49,912
LOL ... You DISMISS The Sacred Texts -- and "Jesus" ... I do not ...

I take The TEXTS -- and "Jesus" -- SERIOUSLY ...

I recognize and accept and take SERIOUSLY The Observed NATURE -- and so, Purpose -- of The Sacred Texts, i.e., that They ARE " ... From Faith, For Faith ... " ...

You OTOH seem to regard that Observed Fact as somehow "de-Legitimizing"  Them -- " ... squat ... " .... The Ecumenical Creeds characterized as " ... Dog Feces and Maggots ... " ... etc., etc. ...


Feb 4, 2011 -- 7:34AM, Dennis wrote:

And, the majority of historians, the vast majority agree with what I am "reporting." In fact, I  report findings of scholars, adding my own unique perspective from time to time. 

Feb 3, 2011 -- 8:51AM, teilhard wrote:

(1)  Like it or not, "Historians" and Interpreters ALIKE deal with The REPORTED "Sayings of Jesus," which ARE indeed REPORTED by The Authors of the Canonical Gospels ...  That's not "naive" ... It's called The T-E-X-T ...

(2) In your Opinion ...

Feb 3, 2011 -- 5:57AM, Dennis wrote:



(1)It is difficult to keep my chuckle less than a guffaw at that naive response, because in most of the situations noted in the use of various Psalms we are speaking of the author's use of the scripture, not Jesus' use.


(2) He certainly did not fulfill "squat!"


Feb 2, 2011 -- 5:16PM, teilhard wrote:

As noted previously in these Discussions, The Canonical Gospels make it ABUNDANTLY Clear that The Historical Lord Jesus (The Christ) of Nazareth WAS thoroughly Observantly "Jewish" ...

So, indeed, He FREQUENTLY (reportedly) quoted from -- and Interpreted -- and LIVED and so FULFILLED -- The Scriptures ...

Feb 2, 2011 -- 2:41PM, Dennis wrote:

"All the words attributed to Jesus as he dies are taken from scripture... Psalm 22:1 is the first to be quoted in the tradition; it is part of the same Psalm from which the theme of dividing Jesus' clothes comes... Luke probably thought the lament of Ps 22:1 was too harsh to be put on the lips of Jesus, so he substituted words more suitable to the course of his own gospel. John adopted a different course but stayed with the tradition of quoting scripture as the last gasp of Jesus.
"The great variety in these attribution illustrates once again how free the individual evangelists were in putting words of scripture on Jesus' lips."
The Five Gospels, Funk, et al. p. 126.

When one realizes the last sentence of this quote, one realizes that the sayings of Jesus, seen in the context of the evangelists' varying views of him and their use of scripture, they are not difficult at all.

.

Feb 2, 2011 -- 8:46AM, teilhard wrote:

"Jesus Cry of Dereliction on The Cross" may indicate that he DID Hope -- perhaps even EXPECT -- that "God" WOULD rescue him at the last Minute, as per, "The Great Hallel," which He and The Twelve (reportedly) sang together just the Evening before, at Passover Seder ...



















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3 years ago  ::  Feb 05, 2011 - 7:47AM #52
Dennis
Posts: 1,433
Yep, your view is identical to the 7% of Christianity that calls itself fundamentalist or evangelical. Sure you are serious. I don't know a single fundamentalist who isn't.

The "ecumenical creeds" are what "came out." And, we all know what the historical Jesus said about what "came out!"  "It's not what goes into a person from the outside that can defile; rather it's what comes out of the person that defiles!" Further explaining, the author of Mark had Jesus say, "Are you as dim-witted as the rest? Don't you realize that nothing from outside can defile by going into the person, because it doesn't get to the heart but passes into the stomach, and comes out in the outhouse!"  You should probably read the Bible more instead of what "came out!"


Feb 4, 2011 -- 8:41AM, teilhard wrote:

LOL ... You DISMISS The Sacred Texts -- and "Jesus" ... I do not ...

I take The TEXTS -- and "Jesus" -- SERIOUSLY ...

I recognize and accept and take SERIOUSLY The Observed NATURE -- and so, Purpose -- of The Sacred Texts, i.e., that They ARE " ... From Faith, For Faith ... " ...

You OTOH seem to regard that Observed Fact as somehow "de-Legitimizing"  Them -- " ... squat ... " .... The Ecumenical Creeds characterized as " ... Dog Feces and Maggots ... " ... etc., etc. ...


Feb 4, 2011 -- 7:34AM, Dennis wrote:

And, the majority of historians, the vast majority agree with what I am "reporting." In fact, I  report findings of scholars, adding my own unique perspective from time to time. 

Feb 3, 2011 -- 8:51AM, teilhard wrote:

(1)  Like it or not, "Historians" and Interpreters ALIKE deal with The REPORTED "Sayings of Jesus," which ARE indeed REPORTED by The Authors of the Canonical Gospels ...  That's not "naive" ... It's called The T-E-X-T ...

(2) In your Opinion ...

Feb 3, 2011 -- 5:57AM, Dennis wrote:



(1)It is difficult to keep my chuckle less than a guffaw at that naive response, because in most of the situations noted in the use of various Psalms we are speaking of the author's use of the scripture, not Jesus' use.


(2) He certainly did not fulfill "squat!"


Feb 2, 2011 -- 5:16PM, teilhard wrote:

As noted previously in these Discussions, The Canonical Gospels make it ABUNDANTLY Clear that The Historical Lord Jesus (The Christ) of Nazareth WAS thoroughly Observantly "Jewish" ...

So, indeed, He FREQUENTLY (reportedly) quoted from -- and Interpreted -- and LIVED and so FULFILLED -- The Scriptures ...

Feb 2, 2011 -- 2:41PM, Dennis wrote:

"All the words attributed to Jesus as he dies are taken from scripture... Psalm 22:1 is the first to be quoted in the tradition; it is part of the same Psalm from which the theme of dividing Jesus' clothes comes... Luke probably thought the lament of Ps 22:1 was too harsh to be put on the lips of Jesus, so he substituted words more suitable to the course of his own gospel. John adopted a different course but stayed with the tradition of quoting scripture as the last gasp of Jesus.
"The great variety in these attribution illustrates once again how free the individual evangelists were in putting words of scripture on Jesus' lips."
The Five Gospels, Funk, et al. p. 126.

When one realizes the last sentence of this quote, one realizes that the sayings of Jesus, seen in the context of the evangelists' varying views of him and their use of scripture, they are not difficult at all.

.

Feb 2, 2011 -- 8:46AM, teilhard wrote:

"Jesus Cry of Dereliction on The Cross" may indicate that he DID Hope -- perhaps even EXPECT -- that "God" WOULD rescue him at the last Minute, as per, "The Great Hallel," which He and The Twelve (reportedly) sang together just the Evening before, at Passover Seder ...






















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3 years ago  ::  Feb 05, 2011 - 9:07AM #53
teilhard
Posts: 49,912
LOL ...

(1)  Yes ... The Christian Faith Tradition -- in EVERY Tradition IS profoundly "Evangelical," i.e., It IS  very much about "The Good News" ... But, No ... I am NOT a "Fundamentalist" ...  I AM a Catholic of The "Lutheran" Reform Movement ..

(2)  L ... O ... L ... You just can't resist, can you ... ???  That's okay, for thus, in spite of your self, you reveal your TRUE Thoughts and Feelings which lie VERY closely beneath the Thin Veneer of your (supposedly) "Scholarly" Interests ... 

Indeed, what is "inside" DOES "come out" inevitably, yes ... ???

Feb 5, 2011 -- 7:47AM, Dennis wrote:



(1) Yep, your view is identical to the 7% of Christianity that calls itself fundamentalist or evangelical. Sure you are serious. I don't know a single fundamentalist who isn't.

(2) The "ecumenical creeds" are what "came out." And, we all know what the historical Jesus said about what "came out!"  "It's not what goes into a person from the outside that can defile; rather it's what comes out of the person that defiles!" Further explaining, the author of Mark had Jesus say, "Are you as dim-witted as the rest? Don't you realize that nothing from outside can defile by going into the person, because it doesn't get to the heart but passes into the stomach, and comes out in the outhouse!"  You should probably read the Bible more instead of what "came out!"


Feb 4, 2011 -- 8:41AM, teilhard wrote:

LOL ... You DISMISS The Sacred Texts -- and "Jesus" ... I do not ...

I take The TEXTS -- and "Jesus" -- SERIOUSLY ...

I recognize and accept and take SERIOUSLY The Observed NATURE -- and so, Purpose -- of The Sacred Texts, i.e., that They ARE " ... From Faith, For Faith ... " ...

You OTOH seem to regard that Observed Fact as somehow "de-Legitimizing"  Them -- " ... squat ... " .... The Ecumenical Creeds characterized as " ... Dog Feces and Maggots ... " ... etc., etc. ...


Feb 4, 2011 -- 7:34AM, Dennis wrote:

And, the majority of historians, the vast majority agree with what I am "reporting." In fact, I  report findings of scholars, adding my own unique perspective from time to time. 

Feb 3, 2011 -- 8:51AM, teilhard wrote:

(1)  Like it or not, "Historians" and Interpreters ALIKE deal with The REPORTED "Sayings of Jesus," which ARE indeed REPORTED by The Authors of the Canonical Gospels ...  That's not "naive" ... It's called The T-E-X-T ...

(2) In your Opinion ...

Feb 3, 2011 -- 5:57AM, Dennis wrote:



(1)It is difficult to keep my chuckle less than a guffaw at that naive response, because in most of the situations noted in the use of various Psalms we are speaking of the author's use of the scripture, not Jesus' use.


(2) He certainly did not fulfill "squat!"


Feb 2, 2011 -- 5:16PM, teilhard wrote:

As noted previously in these Discussions, The Canonical Gospels make it ABUNDANTLY Clear that The Historical Lord Jesus (The Christ) of Nazareth WAS thoroughly Observantly "Jewish" ...

So, indeed, He FREQUENTLY (reportedly) quoted from -- and Interpreted -- and LIVED and so FULFILLED -- The Scriptures ...

Feb 2, 2011 -- 2:41PM, Dennis wrote:

"All the words attributed to Jesus as he dies are taken from scripture... Psalm 22:1 is the first to be quoted in the tradition; it is part of the same Psalm from which the theme of dividing Jesus' clothes comes... Luke probably thought the lament of Ps 22:1 was too harsh to be put on the lips of Jesus, so he substituted words more suitable to the course of his own gospel. John adopted a different course but stayed with the tradition of quoting scripture as the last gasp of Jesus.
"The great variety in these attribution illustrates once again how free the individual evangelists were in putting words of scripture on Jesus' lips."
The Five Gospels, Funk, et al. p. 126.

When one realizes the last sentence of this quote, one realizes that the sayings of Jesus, seen in the context of the evangelists' varying views of him and their use of scripture, they are not difficult at all.

.

Feb 2, 2011 -- 8:46AM, teilhard wrote:

"Jesus Cry of Dereliction on The Cross" may indicate that he DID Hope -- perhaps even EXPECT -- that "God" WOULD rescue him at the last Minute, as per, "The Great Hallel," which He and The Twelve (reportedly) sang together just the Evening before, at Passover Seder ...

























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3 years ago  ::  Feb 07, 2011 - 12:48PM #54
Dennis
Posts: 1,433
Your views are IDENTICAL to the views of the fundamentalist, Teil. That's what "comes out" of you.
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 07, 2011 - 1:06PM #55
teilhard
Posts: 49,912
Nope ...

The "Fundamentalist" Folks are "Protestants" who care little for The Ecumenical Creeds, The Sacraments, and The Historic Episcopate ...

I hold and teach The CATHOLIC Faith ...

Feb 7, 2011 -- 12:48PM, Dennis wrote:


Your views are IDENTICAL to the views of the fundamentalist, Teil.




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3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2011 - 6:55AM #56
Dennis
Posts: 1,433
The "creeds" correlate almost perfectly with the beliefs of the fundamentalist. You really don't know much about the Christian religion, Teil. We've been having some belly laughs with your posts, but other than that, they exhibit a consummate lack of knowledge. In another forum (Bible: Jesus first miracle) you couldn't even define the terms you were using!!!

Feb 7, 2011 -- 1:06PM, teilhard wrote:

Nope ...

The "Fundamentalist" Folks are "Protestants" who care little for The Ecumenical Creeds, The Sacraments, and The Historic Episcopate ...

I hold and teach The CATHOLIC Faith ...

Feb 7, 2011 -- 12:48PM, Dennis wrote:


Your views are IDENTICAL to the views of the fundamentalist, Teil.







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3 years ago  ::  Feb 09, 2011 - 10:27AM #57
teilhard
Posts: 49,912
LOL ... Well, yes ...

The "Fundamentalist" Sects ARE "Christian," along with Catholic Christians ...

But The Protest Ant "Fundamentalist" Sects are NON-Credal and often frankly ANTI-Credal ...

They DE-Emphasize The Sacraments and positively DECRY The Historic Episcopate ...

Feb 9, 2011 -- 6:55AM, Dennis wrote:



The "creeds" correlate almost perfectly with the beliefs of the fundamentalist.

Feb 7, 2011 -- 1:06PM, teilhard wrote:

Nope ...

The "Fundamentalist" Folks are "Protestants" who care little for The Ecumenical Creeds, The Sacraments, and The Historic Episcopate ...

I hold and teach The CATHOLIC Faith ...

Feb 7, 2011 -- 12:48PM, Dennis wrote:


Your views are IDENTICAL to the views of the fundamentalist, Teil.










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