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4 years ago  ::  May 08, 2010 - 12:58AM #1
eulalia_m
Posts: 5


Here are four statements:

--Approximately 1,400 years ago an actual person called Muhammad received a recitation from an "angel" called Gibril.

--The angel, Gibril, transmitted the recitation to Muhammad over a period of about 23 lunar years.

--The written Quran of today corresponds word for word, syllable for syllable, phoneme for phoneme with the recitation that the angel, Gibril, transmitted to the person called Muhammad about 1,400 years ago. By that I mean that were I to enunciate the words of today's written Quran correctly I would reproduce exactly the recitation that Muhammad received from Gibril fourteen centuries ago.

--The written Quran of today, the one I can purchase from any Islamic bookstore, captures precisely the meaning – every detail, every nuance - of the recitation the angel, Gibril, transmitted to the person called Muhammad about 1,400 years ago?

Am I correct in thinking that every Muslim is called upon to believe the truth of these four statements without qualification?


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4 years ago  ::  May 08, 2010 - 9:45AM #2
Abdullah.
Posts: 882

Hi eulalia_m and welcome!


Yes they have to believe every statement regarding the Arabic Quran that is and not any of it's translations, but regarding the last statement, there is the unequivical verses of the Quran that the consensus agrees on as to it's meaning [or they are made unequivical by the help of hadith shedding more light to it's meaning?], and such meanings have to be accepted;


there are however meanings on which there are valid differences of opinions and a muslim should accept one of these opinions according to the school of though he follows [there are four schools of thought]


and just from a laymans read of the Quranic text, he can get a lesson of the simple realities, such as the historic events relating to the former prophets and their nations, the statement of Allâh’s bounties on mankind, the creation of the heavens and the earth, the cosmological signs of the divine power and wisdom, the pleasures of the Paradise and the torture of the Hell, and subjects of similar nature, but for the the imperatives and provisions of Islâmic law, the details of doctrinal issues, the wisdom of certain injunctions and other academic subjects, one needs to learn that of the qualifed scholars for such acedemic subjects need an indepth and contextual interpretation.


There are also some figurative verses in the Quran, of which the exact meaning may not be known; we accept these verses as they were said, not giving them a meaning or a litteral meaning, and in order to protect ourselves from devient or anthropomorphic meanings, we accept the figurative interpretations of such verses of the dialecticians, for example, 'the hand of ALlah' will be interpreted as something like 'the power of ALlah' etc,


hope this helps


Peace! Smile

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4 years ago  ::  May 08, 2010 - 12:41PM #3
visio
Posts: 3,249

May 8, 2010 -- 12:58AM, eulalia_m wrote:



Here are four statements:

--Approximately 1,400 years ago an actual person called Muhammad received a recitation from an "angel" called Gibril.

--The angel, Gibril, transmitted the recitation to Muhammad over a period of about 23 lunar years.

--The written Quran of today corresponds word for word, syllable for syllable, phoneme for phoneme with the recitation that the angel, Gibril, transmitted to the person called Muhammad about 1,400 years ago. By that I mean that were I to enunciate the words of today's written Quran correctly I would reproduce exactly the recitation that Muhammad received from Gibril fourteen centuries ago.

--The written Quran of today, the one I can purchase from any Islamic bookstore, captures precisely the meaning – every detail, every nuance - of the recitation the angel, Gibril, transmitted to the person called Muhammad about 1,400 years ago?

Am I correct in thinking that every Muslim is called upon to believe the truth of these four statements without qualification?





The answer to your question is, as previos poster has answered it yes.  I don't really understand what do you mean by without qualification.  Can you clarify that, for us please.
If you are inferring a blind belief, then I must say at the learning levels Muslims, as a whole are just as critical as anyone else about their Scriptures.   Since the time of the Prophets there has been continous string of Muslims who themselves became enlightened with direct experiencing, in the footstep of Muhammadsaw, but may not be at the highest level of the Prophet.    Their written accounts do explain and expand the hidden meanings of those verses in many parts of the Al-Quran. Even in the limited visison that those people have experienced, they came to no where closer to contradict any on eof those verses.  And given the "illiterate" background of the Prophet and the deeper meanings of the many verses in the Al-Quran, they couldn't believe that those verses come directly from the mind of Muhammadsaw. ALLAHswt via Gabriel used Muhammadsaw's tongue to transmit what was revealed.  And they were srcibed on the spot as and when Muhammadsaw had his revelation session.   Having known several people of direct experiencing who do receive revelation of various order/level,  there can be a few days gap when actual revaleation are received and the moment when they are narrated.  That depends on the subject matter/contents of the messages.  I never studied history of the compilation of the Al-Quran, but, I must say, the decision to compile the Al-Quran was made timely when many of the close companions of the Prophets were still alive and the ordering of the verses/chapters were still in their memories.  Just imagine this a chapter in the present form of the Al-Quran may contain 100 verses.   Not necessarily all of them are revealed in one session.  It could be over several session that stretching over a period of weeks or months.   When it is thought to close, there is still a potential of a few more verses being revealed several months later, and out of the blue.   There are several such verses in the Al-Quran and they are indicated by such phrase adressed to Muhammadsaw  "Have you forgotten?",  "What was shown to you ........." But nothing as convincing as the Al-Quranic treatment of matters invincible.  Accounts by those who were blessed with direct experiencing thru gnosis, in on eform or another, all pointing towards congruency.  To me, as born Muslims, I must admit that during my younger days,  reading thru the translated version of the Al-Quran, I found it very dry and nothing more that some ritual command and surface understanding.  But to-day, it is quite unbelievable, it opens up more questions even after several long standing and perennial ones are answered.  Of course many hadiths are keys to some of this understanding.  It is on the basis of this belief that Muslims recite/include all these Quranic verses in their salat and supplication because by doing that we are simulating the mutual invoked consciousness state between Muhammad and Gabriel.   The latter's state is also living close with us who is none other than the part of our SINGLE PERSON who we have forgotten.  And Gabriel (generic) is the veil between a Muslim and ALLAHswt.   I could say between a man and ALLAHswt but I couldn't say that because non-Muslim may not understand ALLAHswt as indicated in the Al-Quran, to avoid any misleading. 

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4 years ago  ::  May 09, 2010 - 8:51AM #4
stevenlmeyer
Posts: 1,043

Oh well I guess if you truly believe this sort of stuff you'll believe anything.


 


 

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4 years ago  ::  May 09, 2010 - 7:01PM #5
Karma_yeshe_dorje
Posts: 12,444

G'day stevenlmeyer: Undecided


Candle


if you truly believe this sort of stuff you'll believe anything
I would like to see a higher standard of argument than this string of fallacies! 

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4 years ago  ::  May 10, 2010 - 11:40AM #6
visio
Posts: 3,249

May 9, 2010 -- 7:01PM, Karma_yeshe_dorje wrote:


G'day stevenlmeyer:

if you truly believe this sort of stuff you'll believe anything
I would like to see a higher standard of argument than this string of fallacies!




Goodday, Dorje,
Beautiful candle and light.  I don't even consider it as an argument.   Just a statement of a state of someone so accustomed to pull up others by their nose like cattle, I guess.
 

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4 years ago  ::  May 11, 2010 - 12:32AM #7
eulalia_m
Posts: 5

Visio, Abdullah,


Thank you for your replies. I had been told this is what Muslims believe but was not sure.


 


 

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